# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 277
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5521 "2015-07-28T16:31:05Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Many of the witnesses that spoke to the media were later proven to be full of shit. The LSM didn’t bother to verify any of their stories before using those stories as “breaking news”. What’s your point with this and your previous post? That witnesses are unreliable, especially if they can compare their story with others’ before talking to investigators? If so, then “I agree” would’ve been a shorter response to my post. Somehow I think you’re trying to turn it into a _tu qoque_ or something, but damned if I can tell if there’s any rational theme behind your typing. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5522 "2015-07-28T16:35:22Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The LSM didn’t bother to verify any of their stories before using those stories as “breaking news”. Hah! I can’t believe I recognized your TLA as Lame Stream Media! Only total asshats use that TLA! ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5523 "2015-07-28T16:37:27Z")
“Totally Lame Acronym”? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5524 "2015-07-28T16:39:02Z")
\*\*doorhinge \*\*is Sarah Palin? That would explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5525 "2015-07-28T16:49:07Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > What’s your point with this and your previous post? That witnesses are unreliable, especially if they can compare their story with others’ before talking to investigators? > > If so, then “I agree” would’ve been a shorter response to my post. Somehow I think you’re trying to turn it into a _tu qoque_ or something, but damned if I can tell if there’s any rational theme behind your typing. In post #5494, you said, “_I’m not saying that happened, but it was certainly made possible, because both accounts were part of a national dialogue for days (at least) before all the witnesses were officially deposed_”. Key words - I’m not saying that happened, I say it (false eyewitness statements being promoted by the media outlets) actually did happen. You should have simply said you agreed with me. Instead, we were able to have a longer conversation that established that we agree. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5526 "2015-07-28T16:56:53Z")
Well, I tried. ETA: Whether any testimony matching the “hands up” narrative was inaccurate isn’t the point. Inaccuracies and inventions are almost a given. The point was about the wisdom of not releasing a videotape until the deposing witnesses part of the investigation is done. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5527 "2015-07-28T17:44:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And it is exactly because the concept of deep slumber exists that one needs to understand that _one should never make rash, immediate gestures upon being suddenly aroused from one_. Reaching for your glasses is rash and immediate? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5528 "2015-07-28T18:00:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Reaching for your glasses is rash and immediate? If you’re in a situation where doing so could be construed as a threat by someone who has the ability to respond to that threat with deadly force? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5529 "2015-07-28T18:30:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you’re in a situation where doing so could be construed as a threat by someone who has the ability to respond to that threat with deadly force? Yes. Yeah. If only we were awake enough, and had full use of our vision so we were able to see that there was actually a threat of deadly force. :smack: You really are an idiot, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5530 "2015-07-28T18:47:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you’re in a situation where doing so could be construed as a threat by someone who has the ability to respond to that threat with deadly force? Yes. Marvel’s newest superhero: Opposum Man! He has the twitchy fear detection of the most frightened housecat, but when threatened, watch out! He can go semi comatose on you before you even know what hit you. ---
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5531 "2015-07-28T19:12:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …“Great Britain, Fuck Yeah!”… _“Back in time to have some motherfuckin’ tea!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5532 "2015-07-28T19:25:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you’re in a situation where doing so could be construed as a threat by someone who has the ability to respond to that threat with deadly force? Yes. How are you supposed to evaluate the nature of the threat immediately upon waking and without your glasses, I ask in full anticipation of yet another entertainingly insane layer of flimsy rationalization. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5533 "2015-07-28T19:50:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > How are you supposed to evaluate the nature of the threat immediately upon waking and without your glasses, I ask in full anticipation of yet another entertainingly insane layer of flimsy rationalization. You awake. You are not in full possession of your visual capacities. You are aware that sounds are occurring in your dwelling that indicate the presence of an armed force. You are aware that under such circumstances reaching for your glasses could be perceived as a threat. Do you choose to reach for your glasses? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5534 "2015-07-28T19:57:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You awake. You are not in full possession of your visual capacities. You are aware that sounds are occurring in your dwelling that indicate the presence of an armed force. You are aware that under such circumstances reaching for your glasses could be perceived as a threat. > > Do you choose to reach for your glasses? You are a cop. You are serving a no-knock warrant, and once again it looks like somebody fucked up. You are expecting Venezuelan Drug Lords and instead here’s an old guy, foggy with sleep, reaching for his glasses. Do you shoot him? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5535 "2015-07-28T19:58:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You awake. You are not in full possession of your visual capacities. You are aware that sounds are occurring in your dwelling that indicate the presence of an armed force. You are aware that under such circumstances reaching for your glasses could be perceived as a threat. > > Do you choose to reach for your glasses? How exactly am I determining that the sounds “indicate the presence of an armed force”? I just hear loud noises and yelling, and I see bright lights and fuzzy motion. Is it my wife having a problem with the dog? Is it a fire? -_Oh Christ, the dog’s on fire, isn’t he?_ I better get my glasses on and help! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5536 "2015-07-28T20:01:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you’re in a situation where doing so could be construed as a threat by someone who has the ability to respond to that threat with deadly force? Yes. Just shoot me now then, please. Myopic me reaches for glasses on first awakening for five-plus decades now, like Pavlov’s Dog. But fortunately I live in Thailand where cops are far more rational-acting than in U.S. (And Google “Thai police behavior” to see how amazing _that_ fact is.) ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5537 "2015-07-28T20:04:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You awake. You are not in full possession of your visual capacities. You are aware that sounds are occurring in your dwelling that indicate the presence of an armed force. You are aware that under such circumstances reaching for your glasses could be perceived as a threat. > > Do you choose to reach for your glasses? I reach for my phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range and let those bastards have it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5538 "2015-07-28T20:05:18Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I just hear loud noises and yelling, and I see bright lights and fuzzy motion. Is it your judgment that in such a situation, you would be best served by committing an act which could be construed as a threat by a person who is in your home, armed with a deadly weapon, and not as mentally infirm as you insist that you would be? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5539 "2015-07-28T20:13:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Is it your judgment that in such a situation, you would be best served by committing an act which could be construed as a threat by a person who is in your home, armed with a deadly weapon, and not as mentally infirm as you insist that you would be? Oh, I"m not concerned for me; those armed force dudes would’ve tripped the fishing lines activating the shotgun traps on my doors and windows on their way in. I’m cool.\* I’m just saying _the dog’s on fire_, man! \*Sarcasm, again. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5540 "2015-07-28T20:13:49Z")
I wonder if there are any situations that are not best served by lying perfectly still. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=276) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=278)