# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/541 "2014-12-23T17:06:55Z")
How do our locals police apologists feel about civil forfeiture abuse? John Oliver had a bit on it awhile back. It still disproportionately affects minorities, but the legal system will take whatever they think they can get away with [and is on their “wish list”.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/us/police-use-department-wish-list-when-deciding-which-assets-to-seize.html?_r=5) Texas (where I live) is listed as one of the worst as apparently you have prove your property is innocent or the cops get to sell it and buy margarita machines. It started out as supposedly a weapon in the “War on Drugs” but again, cops with too much power and not enough oversight left it ripe for abuse. Nobody gets killed but cops are allowed to take your shit basically just because. And they don’t give it back. You don’t even have to be arrested, much less tried or convicted. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/542 "2014-12-24T04:20:47Z")
Did we already talk about [16 year old Kimani Gray and the alleged-gun planting cops from the 67th Precinct (East Flatbush, Brooklyn, NYC)? > [@](#): > > According to the NYPD, 11 bullets were fired. Seven were later recovered from Gray’s body, with three having entered through his back. By the department’s account, Mourad and Cordova approached Gray after they saw him adjusting his waistband, and the teenager allegedly pointed the .38 at them when he was confronted. Witnesses say he had nothing in his hands. > > “He was running for his life, telling the cops ‘stop,’” Camille Johnson told reporters with local TV station PIX 11 following the shooting. “They really are, seriously, walking around, shooting little kids.” > > In an interview, Tishana King—who has spoken with the press in the past about what she saw that night—recalled that, after the shooting, one of the officers threw a tantrum. “He was like, ‘Oh my God, oh my God!’” she said. “He looked really distressed and then his partner came over, put his hand around his shoulder, and said, ‘Calm down, calm down.’ And then said something into his ear.” > > In Tishana’s version of events, it’s this cop, the one doing the shooting, that takes charge from here on out. "He had his gun pointin’ up at the windows while my head was out. He said, ‘Put your fucking head back in the window before I fucking shoot you.’ But what about the gun? > [@](#): > > Tishana later shot video of the crime scene from her window overlooking the block where it took place using her cellphone. Filmed about five minutes after the bullets were fired, it indicates that police arriving in droves to the scene were looking for something. The video shows multiple officers scouring the ground near Gray with their flashlights. At no point do the officers appear to be offering him any form of medical assistance. What were they after? (King has provided this video, the existence of which has not previously been reported, to the complainants in the civil trial.) > > Montgomery, the lawyer, thinks they were looking for the gun. “What else could they be doing milling about while a child lay dying on the ground?” he wonders. > > The only publically available photo of the .38 was taken while the gun appeared to be in a box, not at the crime scene. > [@](#): > > No crime scene photo of the gun—a weapon that, according to Gun Digest, has not been manufactured in the United States since 1986—was ever released. ]([http://www.vice.com/read/alleged-gun-planting-in-brooklyn-raises-new-questions-about-the-death-of-kimani-gray-1223](http://www.vice.com/read/alleged-gun-planting-in-brooklyn-raises-new-questions-about-the-death-of-kimani-gray-1223)) ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/543 "2014-12-24T04:31:44Z")
> [@KAndre](#): > > How do our locals police apologists feel about civil forfeiture abuse? John Oliver had a bit on it awhile back. It still disproportionately affects minorities, but the legal system will take whatever they think they can get away with > [and is on their “wish list”.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/us/police-use-department-wish-list-when-deciding-which-assets-to-seize.html?_r=5) Texas (where I live) is listed as one of the worst as apparently you have prove your property is innocent or the cops get to sell it and buy margarita machines. It started out as supposedly a weapon in the “War on Drugs” but again, cops with too much power and not enough oversight left it ripe for abuse. > > Nobody gets killed but cops are allowed to take your shit basically just because. And they don’t give it back. You don’t even have to be arrested, much less tried or convicted. Yet another thing these cop apologists will say nothing about. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/544 "2014-12-24T04:36:52Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Yet another thing these cop apologists will say nothing about. I support the recent no-true-bill decisions in cop shootings - that is, I can see how the juries may have decided there was no probable cause. I also think the “war on drugs” is hugely stupid, counterproductive, and corrupting, and RICO civil forfeiture laws are a travesty and a blight on the justice system in the US. Figure that out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/545 "2014-12-24T07:38:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > …Figure that out. (Post shortened for brevity) We’ve had a beneficial effect on you, but the work is far from complete. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/546 "2014-12-24T09:01:37Z")
Missouri again. [ > [@](#): > > St. Louis County police say a man who pulled a gun and pointed it at an officer has been killed in Berkeley, Missouri. > > County police spokesman Sgt. Brian Schellman says a Berkeley police officer was conducting a routine business check at a gas station around 11:15 p.m. Wednesday when he saw two men and approached them. > > Schellman says one of the men pulled a handgun and pointed it at the officer. The officer fired several shots, striking and fatally wounding the man. Schellman says that the second person fled and that the deceased man’s handgun has been recovered. > [@](#): > > Berkeley is about two miles from Ferguson, where a police officer fatally shot 18-year-old Michael Brown in August. ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_KILLINGS\_BY\_POLICE\_BERKELEY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-12-24-03-54-57](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_KILLINGS_BY_POLICE_BERKELEY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-12-24-03-54-57)) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/547 "2014-12-24T09:23:13Z")
[It was a black 18 year old man named Antonio Martin](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/antonio-martin-18-shot-dead-by-police-on-gas-station-forecourt-two-miles-from-ferguson-9943635.html). _Supposedly_ armed, but it’s not like the cops there have much credibility anymore. Protests have already started. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/548 "2014-12-24T09:37:43Z")
Protests have started about the police shooting a guy that was pointing a gun at them? Fucking morons. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/549 "2014-12-24T09:44:10Z")
What do the protesters \*want \*cops to do exactly, when a gun was pointed at the cops? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/550 "2014-12-24T09:51:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What do the protesters \*want \*cops to do exactly, when a gun was pointed at the cops? What makes you think they _believe_ the cops when they say the guy had a gun? ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/551 "2014-12-24T10:06:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Protests have started about the police shooting a guy that was pointing a gun at them? Fucking morons. Is it independently established a gun was being “pointed” or is it the usual situation of police siezing and defining media perspectives (with the reality to follow some time later)? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/552 "2014-12-24T10:10:48Z")
It doesn’t need to be independently established. Unless there’s any evidence that they’re lying, there’s no reason not to take them at their word. This has nothing to do with them being cops, by the way, the same applies to any action in self defence - you believe the victim. The victim, of course, being the person who was made to use lethal force in self defence by the threatening actions of another - in this case, the police officer. Unless you have any evidence that says otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/553 "2014-12-24T10:14:53Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It doesn’t need to be independently established. Unless there’s any evidence that they’re lying, there’s no reason not to take them at their word. They have a history of lying, and of racist violence. That’s plenty of reason to doubt their word; they’ve demonstrated that their word isn’t worth anything. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/554 "2014-12-24T10:53:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They have a history of lying, and of racist violence. That’s plenty of reason to doubt their word; they’ve demonstrated that their word isn’t worth anything. OK, doubt them. So what? Still no reason to think it wasn’t self defence. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/555 "2014-12-24T11:45:42Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It doesn’t need to be independently established. Unless there’s any evidence that they’re lying, there’s no reason not to take them at their word. It does need independence because on the one hand you have a grieving family, or nothing at all - On the other hand you have a beautifully oiled media machine that instantly leaps into ‘damage limitation’ mode whatever the actual circumstances. The latter immediately siezes the media landscape, informs the public and the cast is set. Zero independence, total manipulation. As you ably demonstrate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/556 "2014-12-24T14:59:33Z")
If you’re going to violently protest, it is incumbent on you to make sure you are protesting actual injustice. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/557 "2014-12-24T15:11:14Z")
There’s video available that supposedly shows the circumstances of the shooting. Damned if I can make anything out, though. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/558 "2014-12-24T15:17:12Z")
> **[Antonio Martin shooting: surveillance video shows victim raising a gun — live...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2014/dec/24/black-teenager-shot-dead-by-police-in-st-louis-live-updates)** > > Follow the aftermath of a fatal shooting of a black teenager by St Louis County police ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/559 "2014-12-24T15:55:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Fox affiliated news program falsely reports protestors chanted “kill a cop” [http://gawker.com/slimy-baltimore-fox-affiliate-caught-faking-kill-a-cop-1674040381?utm\_campaign=socialflow\_gawker\_twitter&utm\_source=gawker\_twitter&utm\_medium=socialflow](http://gawker.com/slimy-baltimore-fox-affiliate-caught-faking-kill-a-cop-1674040381?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow) [And now they’ve “apologized” for their “honest misunderstanding”](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-apologizes-for-deceptive-kill-a-cop-edit-honest-misunderstanding/). :rolleyes: [ > [@](#): > > Baltimore Fox affiliate WBFF apologized today for a deceptive edit on a protest video that made it sound like police protesters were chanting “kill a cop” when they were actually changing “’til killer cops are in cell blocks.” > > In a note on their website, they say they made an error: > > We here at Fox45 work hard every day to earn your trust and bring you fair and comprehensive news from around the country. Although last night’s report reflected an honest misunderstanding of what the protesters were saying, we apologize for the error. > WBFF apologized and pulled the story after being contacted by Tawanda Jones, whose brother Tyrone West was killed by Baltimore City Police last year. WBFF spoke with her and even conducted an interview with her. When her interviewer said they “mistakenly reported” what she said, she asked, “How could that be a mistake?” ]([Baltimore | Mediaite](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-apologizes-for-deceptive-kill-a-cop-edit-honest-misunderstanding/)) I hope she sues them for slander, defamation, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/560 "2014-12-24T16:02:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They have a history of lying, and of racist violence. That’s plenty of reason to doubt their word; they’ve demonstrated that their word isn’t worth anything. Are you having a “Karl Rove 2012” type of moment? No disrespect. It’s only a matter of time before you’ll have to acknowledge that the shot person pointed a gun at the cops. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=29)