# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 280
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5581 "2015-07-29T21:57:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Nope. You need to actually read people posts occasionally, rather than just whatever you want to be there so it’s easier for you to argue about. > > **Smapti** also thinks cops should only shoot when it’s reasonable for them to feel fear - but he has a much more inclusive view of when that would be reasonable than anybody else. Inclusive enough to include someone just waking up and reaching for their glasses? That’s like the ultimate inclusivity. Compared to that level of inclusiveness, a Universal Unitarian church looks like a Nazi country club. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5582 "2015-07-29T22:16:36Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Here’s the body cam video of the stop. The action starts around 4:00, which is where it should start if the follow the link. > [https://youtu.be/3jRxGVeI5JE?t=4m](https://youtu.be/3jRxGVeI5JE?t=4m) > Honestly, I can’t figure out what’s going on near the end. It looks like the officer shot him and then the car rolled away, or something? Un Fucking Believable. They’re charging that piece of shit with murder, I read. It never ends. And people think Black Lives Matter is an unnecessary slogan. What utter buulshit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5583 "2015-07-29T22:45:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. Never has been, and no-one, ever, on this board has claimed it to be. You lying, straw-manning arsehole. Just yesterday I went and pulled a past quote from you to demonstrate with your own words that you were lying, and being a gutless weaselfuck, you ran away. I don’t feel compelled to keep going to any effort proving your deceit. Especially when everyone knows that you’re once again lying. Cowardly, racist and liar - quite the resume you’ve built for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5584 "2015-07-30T00:06:26Z")
And that’s the thing. **Steophan** clearly believes that the police are perfectly within their rights to charge into someone’s bedroom in the middle of the night and blow you away for the crime of reaching for your glasses. Reasonable people don’t believe this is reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5585 "2015-07-30T00:08:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And that’s the thing. **Steophan** clearly believes that the police are perfectly within their rights to charge into someone’s bedroom in the middle of the night and blow you away for the crime of reaching for your glasses. I thought Smapti believed that and Steophan was just trying to chastise us for being mean to Smapti. _I’m so confused! If a cop walked in here right now, I’d be a dead man!_ ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5586 "2015-07-30T00:09:25Z")
Eh, both of them. They’re both fascist sociopaths. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5587 "2015-07-30T00:12:55Z")
Can we call them “sociofaps” ? (I call trademark! - googling - dammit!) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5588 "2015-07-30T01:16:10Z")
Saw this video on how British police handle being attacked by a man with a knife: [This is the terrifying moment man swings at police with huge knife - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOTLP9rDiN4) That seems like an all-around better outcome than what we get in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5589 "2015-07-30T01:48:24Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Just yesterday I went and pulled a past quote from you to demonstrate with your own words that you were lying, and being a gutless weaselfuck, you ran away. I don’t feel compelled to keep going to any effort proving your deceit. Especially when everyone knows that you’re once again lying. Cowardly, racist and liar - quite the resume you’ve built for yourself. No, you didn’t prove any such thing, and quite clearly couldn’t do so. But keep accusing me of things that my posts clearly refute. It’s worked so well in the past, what could possibly go wrong? It’s not like you could look any stupider than you already do. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5590 "2015-07-30T01:52:23Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Eh, both of them. They’re both fascist sociopaths. Yes, obviously. People who believe in democracy and justice, rather than violently opposing those things, are fascists and sociopaths. I’m not sure how you make the leap from me and **Smapi** supporting the right of people to challenge police actions in court and vote for politicians who will change laws they dislike to any form of authoritarianism or wish to harm people. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5591 "2015-07-30T03:39:49Z")
I’m quite sure that the first SS also said they believed in justice and democracy. Fascist is as fascist does. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5592 "2015-07-30T03:40:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > To quote from the article, “This office has probably reviewed upwards of hundreds of police shootings, and this is the first time that we’ve thought this is without question a murder”. Sounds about right, one in hundreds of these stupid “controversies” is actually a serious crime. In how many of those other cases was there video? Because in this case at least 4 other officers flat out lied to support the killer, and if there hadn’t been video they would all have gotten away with it. I’m sure that buried among those “hundreds of other shootings” are a dozen murders that the police got away with because of the culture of lying among the police force. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5593 "2015-07-30T03:42:37Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, obviously. People who believe in democracy and justice, rather than violently opposing those things, are fascists and sociopaths. I asked you this before but you ignored the question–of all the people who have posted to this thread, do you think you could identify even one who would describe your stance as “believing in democracy and justice”? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5594 "2015-07-30T09:04:25Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I asked you this before but you ignored the question–of all the people who have posted to this thread, do you think you could identify even one who would describe your stance as “believing in democracy and justice”? If not, why not? Anyone who’s read my posts would know that I believe that. Those that don’t are being dishonest with themselves - and usually, they are those who don’t believe that the police should have the same legal protections as everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5595 "2015-07-30T11:19:51Z")
So since you can’t identify one, all respondents are dishonest? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5596 "2015-07-30T12:35:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So since you can’t identify one, all respondents are dishonest? There’s a lot of people in this thread being dishonest, mainly those who claim that they aren’t anti-police but want to give the cops less protection than other people. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5597 "2015-07-30T13:05:18Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > [Authorities: Off-Duty Trooper Fired at Car With 3 Inside](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/authorities-off-duty-trooper-fired-car-teens-inside-32755328) > > > [@](#): > > > > Authorities say an off-duty New Jersey state trooper fired three shots at a car with three young men inside who had knocked on his door by mistake early Sunday. > > > > The Attorney General’s office says the trooper suspected the three were trying to enter his Sparta residence. > > > > Police say two 18-year-olds and a 19-year-old fled after a verbal exchange. They got in their car and drove away and the trooper fired when the car did not stop. No one was injured. > > > > Authorities say the unidentified officer used his personal weapon. No criminal charges have been filed and the shooting remains under investigation. > > > > One of the three, Jesse Barkhorn, says they knocked on the door by mistake while looking for the house of a friend who lives next door. > > My italics > > Mmmm… Shouldn’t the trooper have shot them at his door (claiming fear for his life; and maybe with some justification)? > > Shooting at a fleeing car? > > How is **Smapti** going to spin that? **Smapti** hasn’t answered, but let me proactively agree with him: those three kids deserved to die and they are lucky they didn’t. First off, they ignored a lawful order from a policeman to stop their car. This obviously makes them criminals just like Tamir Rice - strike one. Second, the police officer has every reason to be afraid of imminent harm to life and limb. These kids were in a car with good tires, not stuck in a ditch between a light pole and and another police cruiser. In that case, they still would have deserved to die for being a threat, but as it was they needed to die with extreme prejudice! Strike 2. The only mitigating factor is their race. If they had been black, it would have been 3 strikes and they would be out of here! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5598 "2015-07-30T13:06:35Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s a lot of people in this thread being dishonest, mainly those who claim that they aren’t anti-police but want to give the cops less protection than other people. > [@Sandra Bland video](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1474): > > Yeah no. That’s not true. You are not telling the truth about what you yourself are saying. You were speaking about whether to accept testimony as true. In other words, you were talking about “what X says” for a certain X. > > Look man, it took you a bit of time to come up with that response, so I know you spent some time going back and forth between my quotations of what you said and what I said you said. In your brain was this slow dawning realization that you had fucked up. I know how this goes. It has happened to me on several occasions in the past. But then you quashed that realization, instead pouncing on a point of phrasing in order to be able save face by pretending the particular phrasing had any real implications for the substantive point. This is definitely a dishonest thing to do. But again, I’ve been there as well. I know how this goes, and I know that, in a certain state of mind, it doesn’t feel dishonest. > > Over time I got to develop an instinct for knowing when I was bullshitting myself. Nobody can do this perfectly, but with careful attention you can learn to see it for yourself. I wish you good luck in the future on this point. I just saw this reply from **Frylock** to **Steophan** from a different thread, in Great Debates, which felt very familiar. I think **Frylock’s** post is much more insightful and well thought out than anything I would write. It’s just so perfectly applicable to **Steophan** in this thread as well. **Steophan** , the “you’re a lying liar who is distorting my words and you need to read better” gambit only works if you don’t say it to EVERYONE you are talking to. When you do it your way, you make it too obvious that you’re the fuck-up who cannot even switch up his schtick to give a false veneer of believability. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5599 "2015-07-30T13:47:06Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s a lot of people in this thread being dishonest, mainly those who claim that they aren’t anti-police but want to give the cops less protection than other people. By that standard, can you name one “honest” respondent? I see Frylock and Hentor are addressing this issue more articulately, but I just want to cut to the chase. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5600 "2015-07-30T13:57:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Steophan** , the “you’re a lying liar who is distorting my words and you need to read better” gambit only works if you don’t say it to EVERYONE you are talking to. It like if everywhere you go there’s a bad stink, maybe it’s _your_ BO (or in this case, BS) that’s the problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=279) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=281)