# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/561 "2014-12-24T16:14:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It’s only a matter of time before you’ll have to acknowledge that the shot person pointed a gun at the cops. Well, even if he _did_ point a gun at the cops, it’s probably the cops’ fault for hassling him over a minor crime. I mean, we don’t kill people for robbing gas stations in _America_, right? Look at how militarized and aggressive the police have become that their first response to having a gun pointed at them is to use force! _Fascism is here, people!_ ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/562 "2014-12-24T16:15:32Z")
I mean, really, does a child pointing a gun deserve a death sentence? ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/563 "2014-12-24T16:16:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Are you having a “Karl Rove 2012” type of moment? No disrespect. Is this a parody of passive-aggressive behaviour? No disrespect. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/564 "2014-12-24T16:17:47Z")
> [@](#): > > …you’ll have to acknowledge that the shot person pointed a gun at the cops. (Post shortened because I loves me some of them ellipses.) So, what if he did? Does one such situation prove anything? That there are bad people who are legitimately shot by the police? OK, then what does _that_ prove? That such things happen, sure, OK. That they are the norm? OK, maybe, lets grant that for the sake of common ground. Even if race-based police brutality were not common, exceptional, not the norm…then what? We shrug it off and tell ourselves this is all just exaggerated? Its not normal, so its not a problem until it becomes normal? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/565 "2014-12-24T16:20:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, what if he did? Does one such situation prove anything? That there are bad people who are legitimately shot by the police? OK, then what does _that_ prove? That such things happen, sure, OK. That they are the norm? OK, maybe, lets grant that for the sake of common ground. > > Even if race-based police brutality were not common, exceptional, not the norm…then what? We shrug it off and tell ourselves this is all just exaggerated? Its not normal, so its not a problem until it becomes normal? Then we ask ourselves why crowds of people are still gathering to “protest” legitimate self-defense shootings, and we ask if maybe this lot is less interested in justice than it is in blood, and we ask who is really acting out of a racial interest here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/566 "2014-12-24T16:20:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I mean, really, does a child pointing a gun deserve a death sentence? No. Might it be necessary, given extraordinary circumstances? Yes. Have you any other really, really stupid questions? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/567 "2014-12-24T16:22:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then we ask ourselves why crowds of people are still gathering to “protest” legitimate self-defense shootings, and we ask if maybe this lot is less interested in justice than it is in blood, and we ask who is really acting out of a racial interest here. Talk to yourself a lot, do you? Probably for the best, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/568 "2014-12-24T16:23:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Talk to yourself a lot, do you? Probably for the best, actually. Why do you suppose people are gathering to protest a legitimate act of self-defense? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/569 "2014-12-24T16:42:20Z")
This link seems relevant, though slightly off-topic: [Off duty black cops in New York feel threatened by fellow police officers.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/off-duty-black-cops-in-new-york-feel-threatened-by-fellow-police-officers/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/570 "2014-12-24T16:42:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > (Post shortened because I loves me some of them ellipses.) > > So, what if he did? Does one such situation prove anything? That there are bad people who are legitimately shot by the police? OK, then what does _that_ prove? That such things happen, sure, OK. That they are the norm? OK, maybe, lets grant that for the sake of common ground. > > Even if race-based police brutality were not common, exceptional, not the norm…then what? We shrug it off and tell ourselves this is all just exaggerated? Its not normal, so its not a problem until it becomes normal? The argument that was ensuing, above, was whether or not the cops were telling the truth. If it turns out the victim did point a gun at the cops, then the argument is over. Yes, a new argument will probably spring up, but for now, that particular argument is about this particular incident. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/571 "2014-12-24T16:51:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I mean, really, does a child pointing a gun deserve a death sentence? If you’re referring to last night’s shooting, wasn’t the shot person 18 years old? Also, child or not, isn’t a gun a gun? Are the bullets less deadly because a child wields the gun? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/572 "2014-12-24T16:56:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If you’re referring to last night’s shooting, wasn’t the shot person 18 years old? So was Brown. Still was referred to as a child a lot, wasn’t he? > [@](#): > > Also, child or not, isn’t a gun a gun? Are the bullets less deadly because a child wields the gun? Whooosh. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/573 "2014-12-24T17:06:39Z")
So, Terr, tell us, what would you do if you were a cop and an 18-year old pointed a gun at you? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/574 "2014-12-24T17:31:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So, Terr, tell us, what would you do if you were a cop and an 18-year old pointed a gun at you? Shoot him. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/575 "2014-12-24T17:35:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then we ask ourselves why crowds of people are still gathering to “protest” legitimate self-defense shootings, and we ask if maybe this lot is less interested in justice than it is in blood, and we ask who is really acting out of a racial interest here. No; we recognize that the cops have harassed, assaulted and killed so many people so systematically while indulging in racism, homophobia, classism, bullying, theft and so forth that they’ve destroyed their moral authority among much of society, along with any trust for them. So they can claim self defense all they like, and regardless of the truth of the claim they simply won’t be believed by much of the population. Since after all, the cops would claim it was self defense even if what _actually_ happened is the cop killed the guy for fun, or out of bigotry, or out of incompetence, or to rob him. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/576 "2014-12-24T17:52:18Z")
[NYC Resistance channel on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5StYdbHC3o) The guy is pretty savvy. He videos the cops from hiding so he doesn’t get his camera destroyed or himself arrested. In the linked video he talks to the victim after the plain cloths officers left. Apparently stop and frisk has gone underground and has not stopped. No permission given by the guy for the search. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/577 "2014-12-24T18:07:53Z")
[Video says another victim](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9BLMKAo5WQ) Good grief there are a lot of these. In this case a cop driving his squad car scrapes a parked SUV. Instead of fessing up, the cop arrests the SUV owner. Without the surveillance camera video the victim (SUV owner) would have been sunk. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/578 "2014-12-24T18:13:06Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > [NYC Resistance channel on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5StYdbHC3o) > > The guy is pretty savvy. He videos the cops from hiding so he doesn’t get his camera destroyed or himself arrested. In the linked video he talks to the victim after the plain cloths officers left. Apparently stop and frisk has gone underground and has not stopped. > > No permission given by the guy for the search. I like how the license plate was bent up so the plate number was obscured, making ID difficult. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/579 "2014-12-24T18:32:42Z")
[Cops caught lying](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMoTfLykVcA) Cops tried to suppress the dash cam video, but it came out and saved the victim. How many times are people falsely arrested and not saved by videos? Scary thought. Last one. Merry Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/580 "2014-12-24T19:05:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then we ask ourselves why crowds of people are still gathering to “protest” legitimate self-defense shootings, and we ask if maybe this lot is less interested in justice than it is in blood, and we ask who is really acting out of a racial interest here. Most of the protesters are protesting actions that they do not believe are legitimately self-defense. Eric Garner wasn’t killed in self-defense, for example. He was killed by the cops while they were trying to arrest him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=30)