# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 291
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5801 "2015-08-03T20:49:00Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > As opposed to handcuffing him like he did? Fuck yes! The kids was 8 years old. So, at what precise age _does_ it become acceptable to handcuff someone who is being physically violent? ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5802 "2015-08-03T20:56:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So, at what precise age _does_ it become acceptable to handcuff someone who is being physically violent? If you have to ask, you might as well remove whatever remained after your lobotomy. [**Second video**](https://www.aclu.org/video/sr-v-kcsd-raw-footage-2). The cop’s a sadist. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5803 "2015-08-03T21:01:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > That’s how teachers handle them. Talking out of turn? That’s a tasin’. Lookin’ out the window? That’s a tasin’. Staring at my sandals? That’s a tasin’. Tasin’ the school canoe? Oh, you better believe that’s a tasin’. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5804 "2015-08-03T21:02:20Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > [**Second video**](https://www.aclu.org/video/sr-v-kcsd-raw-footage-2). The cop’s a sadist. Telling a child to stop crying and expecting them to behave themselves is “sadistic”? No wonder we’ve got a generation of kids who think following the law is optional - [they never had to experience any consequences for their actions before, so there’s no reason for them to expect to have to do so now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard). This isn’t torture, this is _parenting_. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5805 "2015-08-03T21:05:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > This isn’t torture, this is _parenting_. That kind of parenting ends up with badly damaged people like, well, you. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5806 "2015-08-03T21:18:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Telling a child to stop crying and expecting them to behave themselves is “sadistic”? The sadist stood there for the seven minutes and 28 seconds of the second video, staring at the terrified, hurting, crying and cruelly treated eight-year-old with ADHD and who was dealing with an earlier trauma (I’d like to know what that was), in addition to this one, being cuffed on the upper arms (probably because, being 8, the handcuffs were too big for his wrists). If the cop has kids, they’re probably buried in his back yard. I didn’t realize you’re blind. I’d write to YouTube if I were you to complain about its poor Braille translations. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5807 "2015-08-03T22:51:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > This isn’t torture, this is _parenting_. There really is something fundamentally wrong with you. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5808 "2015-08-03T22:55:33Z")
Just to clarify, **Smapti** thinks a cop cuffing an 8 year olds arms behind his back is parenting? ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5809 "2015-08-03T22:57:11Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Just to clarify, **Smapti** thinks a cop cuffing an 8 year olds arms behind his back is parenting? IIRC he was also OK with letting his own (hypothetical) child die if it meant risking his life to save it. This seems pretty much in line with that attitude. ---
**Author:** ![akwally1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akwally1/32/3220_2.png) [@akwally1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akwally1)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5810 "2015-08-03T23:10:07Z")
[QUOTE=Kenm;18571269The teacher should have stopped it, not continue to video the torture for 15 minutes.[/QUOTE] Seriously? They had just cuffed an _8-year old kid_! What do you think they would have done to an adult who stepped in to stop it? And not that I’m agreeing with **Smapti** , at all, but I’m not sure what people think should be done with kids when their conditions make them so violent as to hurt either someone else or themselves. I mean I agree that handcuffing him was overkill, but seriously, what would be a good solution? Mark ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5811 "2015-08-03T23:25:26Z")
> [@akwally1](#): > > Seriously? They had just cuffed an _8-year old kid_! What do you think they would have done to an adult who stepped in to stop it? > > And not that I’m agreeing with **Smapti** , at all, but I’m not sure what people think should be done with kids when their conditions make them so violent as to hurt either someone else or themselves. > > I mean I agree that handcuffing him was overkill, but seriously, what would be a good solution? > Mark You’re suggesting “danger to self or others” here? You think this kid was a candidate for involuntary commitment to a mental health facility? Aggressive or damaging behaviors occur from time to time at school. Why not follow the accepted protocol? ---
**Author:** ![akwally1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akwally1/32/3220_2.png) [@akwally1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akwally1)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5812 "2015-08-03T23:33:02Z")
Answering your first question yes, doesn’t mean that your second suggestion follows. There are kids who have issues with aggression who can be very violent at times but act out very sporadically. And for kids who are swinging at people or trying to strike them with objects (not saying that is happening in this specific case, but it has happened) most schools don’t have a protocol for that since it happens so rarely. And I would assume that in this particular case, the protocol was to call the parents and then the police, but I haven’t heard any details yet that can confirm this. Mark ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5813 "2015-08-03T23:50:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Telling a child to stop crying and expecting them to behave themselves is “sadistic”? > > No wonder we’ve got a generation of kids who think following the law is optional - [they never had to experience any consequences for their actions before, so there’s no reason for them to expect to have to do so now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard). > > This isn’t torture, this is _parenting_. That’s parenting? Crap, I knew I was doing something wrong with my kids! I got it! When they I tell them to stop crying and they don’t, I should handcuff them. If they keep crying, should I shackle them to something? If I order them to stop crying (being their legal parent and guardian), and they still don’t, do they become criminals? What then? Am I allowed to use force, even deadly force? How do I know that I am not in imminent danger? You are a fucking nutjob and your worldview is reprehensible. For the record, I have a kid that has ADHD and we have never shackled her or tied her up. She is now 10 and is growing into a very bright and promising woman and is a joy for us and for her teachers. There were challenging times in her past, but we used parenting to get past them. Parenting, for us at least, did not involve handcuffs or even a dunce hat. It certainly did not require a taser. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5814 "2015-08-03T23:52:00Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > IIRC he was also OK with letting his own (hypothetical) child die if it meant risking his life to save it. > > This seems pretty much in line with that attitude. Yep. When dealing with \*\*Smapti \*\* one should recognize that one is dealing with an extremely damaged human. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5815 "2015-08-03T23:53:19Z")
By the way Smapti, if you have kids (not that I can imagine anybody actually wanting to fuck you), you should call child services and tell them that you believe parenting can be properly done with handcuffs. There are laws on the books about people like you, and being such a stand up law and order type of guy, you should really take responsibility and throw yourself on the mercy of the court. I give you even odds they won’t take your kids away, but that is only because our system is so fucked up and arbitrary these days. If it actually operated like you think it should, you would never see your children again. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5816 "2015-08-04T00:33:30Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > The sadist stood there for the seven minutes and 28 seconds of the second video, staring at the terrified, hurting, crying and cruelly treated eight-year-old with ADHD and who was dealing with an earlier trauma (I’d like to know what that was), in addition to this one, being cuffed on the upper arms (probably because, being 8, the handcuffs were too big for his wrists). Let me just throw this out there: I have reason to know that handcuffing on the upper arms like that is common in certain types of BDSM sexplay. I think that officer’s interaction with other children should be very carefully examined. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5817 "2015-08-04T01:05:37Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > That’s parenting? Crap, I knew I was doing something wrong with my kids! I got it! When they I tell them to stop crying and they don’t, I should handcuff them. If they keep crying, should I shackle them to something? If I order them to stop crying (being their legal parent and guardian), and they still don’t, do they become criminals? What then? Am I allowed to use force, even deadly force? How do I know that I am not in imminent danger? Don’t forget to use the taser and pepper spray. That’ll teach 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5818 "2015-08-04T01:10:41Z")
> [@akwally1](#): > > Seriously? They had just cuffed an _8-year old kid_! What do you think they would have done to an adult who stepped in to stop it? The adult in the room, if fearing any reaction by the crazy with a gun and/or a Taser, could have yelled or screamed for help from the door. There may have been two adults in the room, the teacher and an assistant. > [@](#): > > And not that I’m agreeing with **Smapti** , at all, but I’m not sure what people think should be done with kids when their conditions make them so violent as to hurt either someone else or themselves. There is nothing in the only stories I could find that any such violence had occurred. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Let me just throw this out there: I have reason to know that handcuffing on the upper arms like that is common in certain types of BDSM sexplay. I think that officer’s interaction with other children should be very carefully examined. Jeez. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5819 "2015-08-04T11:32:46Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > The adult in the room, if fearing any reaction by the crazy with a gun and/or a Taser, could have yelled or screamed for help from the door. There may have been two adults in the room, the teacher and an assistant. Don’t you think the cameraman maybe thought things were a bit hinky? ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5820 "2015-08-04T17:42:25Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I know the Santa Ana pot raid bust is old news and I always have a problem with abusive cops pulling guns on people who aren’t fighting back. > > But I just learned today that they intentionally destroyed all the security cameras. And sadly, with the way things have been going I wouldn’t be surprised if they get away with it. And it is probably safe to say they’ve done the same thing many times before. > > How the fuck can cops destroying security cameras ever be deemed anything but a crime? I hope they actually get in trouble for that, but I’m sure it happens all the time and nobody has video evidence. It just got better. The [cops are suing to suppress the video from the undamaged security camera](http://www.ocregister.com/articles/police-675722-officers-video.html) because > [@](#): > > The suit also claims the video shouldn’t be used as evidence because, among other things, the police didn’t know they were on camera. > > “All police personnel present had a reasonable expectation that their conversations were no longer being recorded and the undercover officers, feeling that they were safe to do so, removed their masks,” says the suit. > > The dispensary also did not obtain consent of any officer to record them, the suit says. So, apparently, evidence that you’re an asshole shouldn’t be allowed if you didn’t consent to let people document that you’re an asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=290) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=292)