# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 293
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5841 "2015-08-05T16:24:49Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > [Lunatic Cop Pulls Gun On Man Who Was Recording Police Harassment In His Own Driveway (VIDEO)](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/04/lunatic-cop-pulls-gun-on-man-who-was-recording-police-harassment-in-his-own-driveway-video/) > > Middle class neighborhood in California. > > White guy gets away without being killed in his own driveway. Had he been African American - would he be dead and his phone destroyed? (Faux News type question.) Here’s a [more complete article](http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4299394-181/video-captures-rohnert-park-police?page=0) from a local paper, the Press Democrat in Sonoma County. I’m a bit more trusting of this source, just from the lack of “Lunatic Cop” in the headline. > [@Press Democrat](#): > > Santa Rosa criminal defense attorney Paul Lozada said that the officer’s reason for visiting the neighborhood and talking with the man is essential to understanding whether police acted within the law… \ …the nature of the encounter changes once the officer begins demanding a person follow orders and pulls a gun… > > The officer “needs to have a reasonable suspicion that the person he’s talking to is engaged in some sort of criminal activity,” Lozada said. “if that man is not (suspected of a crime) this officer may have committed a misdemeanor brandishing offense.” > > Lozada… called for the Sonoma County District Attorney’s Office to review the incident. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5842 "2015-08-05T18:04:42Z")
This catch all topic reminds me of a catch all global warming topic. There is just such a flood of stories every day. [A white Alabama police officer was caught on a secret recording discussing ways to kill a black man and cover it up, it was revealed Tuesday.](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-man-says-cop-threatened-him-murder-racial-slur-report-n403921) > [@](#): > > Middlebrooks tells Bias’ brother-in-law, that if he were the suspect’s relative, he would “fucking kill that motherfucker” and then arrange the crime scene to “make it look like he was trying to fucking kill me.” > > At another point, Middlebrooks tells the brother-in-law that Bias “needs a goddamn bullet.” A cop saying he would “fucking kill that motherfucker” and then arrange the crime scene to “make it look like he was trying to fucking kill me.” What a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5843 "2015-08-05T19:18:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You confuse a problem with _these_ cops as being a problem with “cops” as an institution. One of the problems with the institution of cops is that they’re not chosen for being smart. In fact, [US Court Ruled You Can Be “Too Smart” to Be a Cop](http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-court-ruled-you-can-be-too-smart-to-be-a-cop/5420630): > [@](#): > > Can a person actually be “too smart” to be a cop in America? > > A federal court’s decision back in 2000 suggests that, yes, you actually can be. > > Robert Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, scored a 33 on an intelligence test he took as part of the application process to become a police officer in the town of New London, Connecticut. The score meant Jordan had an IQ of 125. > > The average score for police officers was a 21-22, or an IQ of 104. New London would only interview candidates who scored between 20 and 27. The article actually asks the question: > [@](#): > > Considering all the police brutality and officer-involved shootings in the news these days, here’s a rhetorical question for you: how well does this hiring practice bode for cops actually being able to follow the Constitution or use proper discretion while “protecting and serving” America? So you have people who are selected for the job because they are not the brightest and they are then given weapons and the responsibility to make life-or-death decisions. What other profession does not want the smartest people they can hire? Crash test dummy? I mean, the job title has dummy in it. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5844 "2015-08-06T02:13:54Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > One of the problems with the institution of cops is that they’re not chosen for being smart. In fact, [US Court Ruled You Can Be “Too Smart” to Be a Cop](http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-court-ruled-you-can-be-too-smart-to-be-a-cop/5420630): > > The article actually asks the question: > So you have people who are selected for the job because they are not the brightest and they are then given weapons and the responsibility to make life-or-death decisions. > > What other profession does not want the smartest people they can hire? Crash test dummy? I mean, the job title has dummy in it. Wow! Over 7 hours and no bite from the S&S crowd? Seriously–name another profession that doesn’t want smart hires. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5845 "2015-08-06T04:18:25Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Seriously–name another profession that doesn’t want smart hires. There are lots, but it would be in bad taste to name any. I’ve always remembered that 2000 court decision but couldn’t cite it to win arguments. I not only bookmarked that page, I saved it in its entirety. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5846 "2015-08-06T04:23:18Z")
Suicide bomber would have to top the list, pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5847 "2015-08-06T13:07:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So, at what precise age _does_ it become acceptable to handcuff someone who is being physically violent? Wow. You’re starting to make **Steophan** look almost sane by comparison. A pregnant woman complained that her fetus was kicking her. Can we draw the line there? I’m sure pre-toddlers need to be tased when they cry instead of articulating their needs in English, but will you at least agree not to cut the pregnant woman open to install foot cuffs on her miscreant fetus? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5848 "2015-08-06T13:34:47Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > …but will you at least agree not to cut the pregnant woman open to install foot cuffs on her miscreant fetus? Eventually, on his 0th birthday, that baby will be putting that woman in danger of serious bodily harm. We should probably just go ahead and cap that kid. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5849 "2015-08-06T13:39:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Wow. You’re starting to make **Steophan** look almost sane by comparison. This gives me a great idea for a poll. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5850 "2015-08-06T13:40:49Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Eventually, on his 0th birthday, that baby will be putting that woman in danger of serious bodily harm. > We should probably just go ahead and cap that kid. Depends on what color it is. But you’re right - nobody should risk their life in any way for the life of another. So, screw it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5851 "2015-08-06T13:42:58Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > This gives me a great idea for a poll. That’s really a tough call, because they come from such disparate places to arrive at their SS lcokstep. It’s kind of like America’s Got Talent - how do you judge a good singing act against a good magic act? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5852 "2015-08-06T14:17:22Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Depends on what color it is. But you’re right - nobody should risk their life in any way for the life of another. So, screw it. Eeek, fetusphilia! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5853 "2015-08-06T15:50:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Wow. You’re starting to make **Steophan** look almost sane by comparison. I’ve never claimed to be sane… ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5854 "2015-08-06T16:22:09Z")
[Police shot and killed more people in July than any other month so far this year](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/08/03/police-shot-and-killed-more-people-in-july-than-any-other-month-so-far-this-year/) > [@](#): > > More people were shot and killed by on-duty police officers in July than in any other month so far in 2015. > > At least 103 people were shot and killed by police officers last month, according to a Washington Post database tracking all fatal on-duty police shootings this year. That is 13 more fatal police shootings than March, the second most deadly month, during which 90 people were shot and killed by police. > > As of today, The Post has tracked 570 fatal police shootings. So that’s more than three a day for July. And easily more than a killing a day so far for the year. Damn, **Smapti** , all this fear for their lives. What’s the UK’s rate, again? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5855 "2015-08-06T16:25:22Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > What’s the UK’s rate, again? IIRC, about 14,000 times lower per capita than the US’s rate. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5856 "2015-08-06T16:42:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > IIRC, about 14,000 times lower per capita than the US’s rate. Bah! There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you make up and the kind you make up. 89.8964456% of people know this, but I’ll let our pseudo-statistician **Steophan** confirm it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5857 "2015-08-06T16:43:54Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Bah! There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you look up and the kind you make up. 89.8964456% of people know this, but I’ll let our pseudo-statistician **Steophan** confirm it. I think **Steophan** and I have beaten those numbers to death. Check that, we shot them because they were coming right at us and we were in fear of our lives. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5858 "2015-08-06T16:47:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think **Steophan** and I have beaten those numbers to death. > > Check that, we shot them because they were coming right at us and we were in fear of our lives. Well, statistics can be dangerous. After all, smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5859 "2015-08-06T17:08:55Z")
Did we do this one yet? [Mom claims family was ambushed over toy gun: > [@](#): > > Woolley said she and her family were ambushed Friday while driving to Park City for a soccer game. > > “Came out of their cars pulled, drew weapons, assault rifles on myself and my children,” she said. > > Handcuffed and detained for more than an hour, her family was overcome with panic. > > Woolley soon discovered why this was happening. ]([http://www.wthr.com/story/29723925/mom-claims-family-was-ambushed-over-toy-gun](http://www.wthr.com/story/29723925/mom-claims-family-was-ambushed-over-toy-gun)) Was she embroiled in a bank robbery plot? Had she kidnapped her own children from herself? No… > [@](#): > > “We received a call from an off-duty police officer who saw someone sticking a hand gun out the side of a vehicle and pointing it at homes driving down a major road in Bountiful,” said Lt. Dave Edwards with the Bountiful Police Department. Well, that certainly seems like cause for alarm, if it were true. Mrs. Woolley disputes the accuracy of the call: > [@](#): > > “The West Valley police officer reported that my son was waiving it outside of the car, pointing it at homes and pointing it at people,” Woolley said. “That is untrue. It’s grossly exaggerated to the point of being false.” Her story : > [@](#): > > She said her 17-year-old son was merely twirling the toy gun around his finger inside the car, and to her, that’s no crime. Police (and apparently the author of the article) had a different opinion: > [@](#): > > Police said, real or fake, inside or outside the car, what her son did was against the law. > > “By waiving a gun out the window, he created such a public concern,” Edwards said. “That is criminal.” > > He said the officers just did what they were trained to do — protect and serve. > > “We would do the same again in order to ensure that everyone is safe at the end of the day,” Edwards said. I note that the author seems to have interjected a viewpoint here: The police officer’s quote does not say anything about holding a toy gun within the confines of the car; instead it specifically calls out “waving a gun out the window”. Why do we allow toy guns to even be sold if holding one in public is a crime? **Is** holding a toy gun in public a crime? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5860 "2015-08-06T17:12:37Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Bah! There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you make up and the kind you make up. 89.8964456% of people know this, but I’ll let our pseudo-statistician **Steophan** confirm it. Confirmed. Killings by police in the UK, and most of Europe, are a statistical blip, basically. Same with gun violence generally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=292) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=294)