# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 300
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5981 "2015-08-16T21:36:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > By definition, a special prosecutor responsible for investigating every police shooting _would_ be dealing with the police on a daily basis and dependent on the cooperation of the police department to get convictions. Not the local police, and it’s not the same one every time. :dubious: They are appointed by the state attorney general. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5982 "2015-08-16T21:58:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > By definition, a special prosecutor responsible for investigating every police shooting _would_ be dealing with the police on a daily basis and dependent on the cooperation of the police department to get convictions. > > In any event, you’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. Prosecutors are happy to indict when there’s hard evidence that the officer was in the wrong, as demonstrated several posts ago. What you want is indictments for cops _regardless_ of whether there’s evidence. There is a difference between “a special prosecutor” and “the special prosecutor”. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5983 "2015-08-17T02:17:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ve read his interviews. He comes off as a guy who doesn’t like his old job and wants to badmouth his coworkers about stuff he never complained about when he was actually in a position to do something about it. > > He makes a valid point that cops shouldn’t be pointing guns at civilians if they’re not intending to open fire, but the rest of it is just a bunch of baseless accusations wound up in the same old buzzwords about “militarization” and such. I happened to catch _Going Clear_ the other night and checked out the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_Clear_%28film%29). Does this sound like a vaguely familiar tactic, **Smapti**? > [@](#): > > The church also denounced the film’s interviewees as “the usual collection of obsessive, disgruntled former Church members kicked out as long as 30 years ago for malfeasance, who have a documented history of making up lies about the Church for money”.[1] The company you keep. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5984 "2015-08-17T02:51:28Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I happened to catch _Going Clear_ the other night and checked out the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_Clear_%28film%29). Does this sound like a vaguely familiar tactic, **Smapti**? You insult the very concept of law enforcement by attempting to liken it to Scientology. I do not accuse Mr. Wood of being in it for the money or of being incompetent at his job. I merely point out that his accusations are unfounded and that his animus towards the force appears to be based in his personal disagreement with the laws the police are expected to enforce. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5985 "2015-08-17T03:35:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You insult the very concept of law enforcement by attempting to liken it to Scientology. > > I do not accuse Mr. Wood of being in it for the money or of being incompetent at his job. I merely point out that his accusations are unfounded and that his animus towards the force appears to be based in his personal disagreement with the laws the police are expected to enforce. I’m insulting you, not law enforcement. Your accuse the accuser tactic of anyone who points out misconduct is quite transparent; one could say _clear_, even. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5986 "2015-08-17T04:57:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I merely point out that his accusations are unfounded… So you were right there with him his entire career and can prove that his accusations are false. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5987 "2015-08-17T06:32:24Z")
:mad: Please don’t go confusing our dear **Smapti** with facts. He’s a world expert on police matters – I think he got that way by reading comic books – and there’s no room in his overflowing brain for more information. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5988 "2015-08-17T14:19:03Z")
I just assume that he’s a retired cop. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5989 "2015-08-17T17:26:48Z")
I just assumed he’s an [**asshole**](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-guard-seen-in-wheelchair-takedown-charged-with-assault-1.1374084) mall [**cop**](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/home-depot-security-guard-ali-rahnumah-charged-in-shoplifter-beating-1.2898440). ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5990 "2015-08-18T02:57:23Z")
[Well, whattya know? White folks get shot with their hands up, too.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/former-fairfax-police-officer-charged-for-murder-of-unarmed-springfield-va-man/2015/08/17/d9b73460-3630-11e5-b673-1df005a0fb28_story.html) And it only took two years to decide to fire this creep. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5991 "2015-08-18T06:24:17Z")
Heres one that has caused a bit of a to-do in Allentown PA: [http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-video-police-take-down-man-singing-outside-shulas-steak-house-c-20150815-premiumvideo.html](http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-video-police-take-down-man-singing-outside-shulas-steak-house-c-20150815-premiumvideo.html) A lot of denizens have gotten hot on the Allentown fuzz for wrestling this guy to the ground but IMO: –The perpetrator has a history of resisting arrest (documented) –He was clearly mouthing off to the cop –The cop had no idea what this ass clown was up to and maybe got a little rough, but better safe than sorry—do you know how much nonsense these guys have to put up with on a daily basis? –Clearly, he was trying to raise trouble by shouting like he did when accosted, setting the cops up He’s been charged with some misdemeanors, and has threatened to sue the police. Hey PAL, want to sing at the top of your voice at an outdoor restaurant? Audition for the restaurant. Im SURE you will get booked. The guy claims to be a “street performer” i.e. homeless bum. Thats fine. Set up your clown act where people can walk by and throw dollars into your hat, like right over there, next to the other bum banging on trash cans for one dollar bills. Im sitting at a restaurant, and paid a lot for my meal; I don’t need some a-hole like your frightening me and my guests with your crazy man act. Get lost, weirdo. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5992 "2015-08-18T07:43:40Z")
It’s time robbers understand that taking hostages as shields doesn’t offer any protection from police shooting at them: > [@](#): > > A new report says the 600 shots police fired at the chaotic end to a California bank robbery that left a hostage dead were excessive and unnecessary, with some officers only firing their weapons because other officers were shooting… > > The July 2014 shootout left two of the suspects and a hostage, Misty Holt-Singh, dead. Police have said Holt-Singh, 41, was struck by 10 of the bullets officers fired as she was used as a human shield by the sole surviving suspect, Jaime Ramos. Ramos has been charged with three counts of murder in addition to robbery, kidnapping, carjacking and gang counts. He has pleaded not guilty. [http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/report-officers-fired-california-robbery-33149186](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/report-officers-fired-california-robbery-33149186) ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5993 "2015-08-18T14:25:24Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > [Well, whattya know? White folks get shot with their hands up, too.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/former-fairfax-police-officer-charged-for-murder-of-unarmed-springfield-va-man/2015/08/17/d9b73460-3630-11e5-b673-1df005a0fb28_story.html) > > And it only took two years to decide to fire this creep. Yeah, this case was mentioned up-thread, but here’s an interesting bit: > [@](#): > > The indictment of Adam D. Torres in the killing of 46-year-old John Geer, who had a holstered gun at his feet when he was shot, marks the first time in the 75-year history of the Fairfax County Police Department that an officer has faced criminal prosecution in connection with an on-duty shooting. Because as the **S&S** twins would have us believe, something like this only happens once every 75 years. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5994 "2015-08-18T14:37:34Z")
Very first rule of gun safety. KEEP YOUR DAMNED FINGER OFF YOUR TRIGGER. Don’t give me any ‘imminent danger’ bullshit. The guy was not armed. The gun was at his feet. A negotiator was speaking to him. At NO POINT is there any justification for Torres to be standing there with his finger on the trigger. NONE. If he gets anything less than Manslaughter, it’ll be a travesty of justice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5995 "2015-08-18T15:38:55Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Very first rule of gun safety. KEEP YOUR DAMNED FINGER OFF YOUR TRIGGER. > > Don’t give me any ‘imminent danger’ bullshit. The guy was not armed. The gun was at his feet. A negotiator was speaking to him. At NO POINT is there any justification for Torres to be standing there with his finger on the trigger. NONE. > > If he gets anything less than Manslaughter, it’ll be a travesty of justice. Agreed. This was absolutely not a good shoot. The negotiator had things in hand and Torres refused to follow directions and panicked. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5996 "2015-08-18T16:28:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Agreed. This was absolutely not a good shoot. The negotiator had things in hand and Torres refused to follow directions and panicked. **Smapt** i, are you OK? Someone seems to be using your login ID. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5997 "2015-08-18T16:52:21Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > **Smapt** i, are you OK? Someone seems to be using your login ID. The dead guy was white. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5998 "2015-08-18T16:58:19Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The dead guy was white. And demonstrably unarmed, and a superior officer was already in control of the situation and had ordered the shooter multiple times to put his weapon away. Race is not a factor here. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5999 "2015-08-18T17:15:58Z")
[http://crooksandliars.com/2015/08/oath-keepers-arm-blacks-ferguson-and-dare?utm\_source=Crooks+and+Liars+Daily+Newsletter&utm\_campaign=718385d291-RSS\_EMAIL\_CAMPAIGN&utm\_medium=email&utm\_term=0\_d4904be7bc-718385d291-326546605](http://crooksandliars.com/2015/08/oath-keepers-arm-blacks-ferguson-and-dare?utm_source=Crooks+and+Liars+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=718385d291-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d4904be7bc-718385d291-326546605) > [@](#): > > Oath Keepers To Arm Blacks In Ferguson And Dare Cops To Shoot Them > [@](#): > > The Oath Keepers are using black citizens in Ferguson to make their own political point about guns. > > ``` > The leader of the group's local chapter told Red Dirt Reportthat the event would likely be held before the end of this month to protest an order last week by law enforcement officers to Oath Keepers to put away their rifles while in city limits. > > "Every person we talked to said if they carried they'd be shot by police," said Sam Andrews, head of the Oath Keepers chapter in St. Louis County. "That's the reason we're going to hold this event, and it will be a legal demonstration. I'm sick and tired of law enforcement who doesn't think they have to abide by the law. They're narcissistic and that guy (the county police chief) discredited my men." > > He said other Oath Keepers members would surround the black demonstrators as protection. > > ``` I can’t decide if this is stupid, or _really_ stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6000 "2015-08-18T18:09:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And demonstrably unarmed, and a superior officer was already in control of the situation and had ordered the shooter multiple times to put his weapon away. > > Race is not a factor here. The guy was not complying with police directives. This is unfailingly your standard for getting shot when the “perp” is not white. In addition, this guy had a gun within reach and was perceived by the shooter to put his hands “near his waist”. Really, this has all the earmarks of a **Smapti Klean Kill**.® The only difference appears to be the lack of blackness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=299) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=301)