# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 301
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6001 "2015-08-18T18:20:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The guy was not complying with police directives. This is unfailingly your standard for getting shot when the “perp” is not white. In addition, this guy had a gun within reach and was perceived by the shooter to put his hands “near his waist”. > > Really, this has all the earmarks of a **Smapti Klean Kill**.® The only difference appears to be the lack of blackness. In all fairness, his being white probably made it easier to see his hands were not complying. [In one of the articles about it](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/former-fairfax-police-officer-charged-for-murder-of-unarmed-springfield-va-man/2015/08/17/d9b73460-3630-11e5-b673-1df005a0fb28_story.html): > [@](#): > > Police officers rarely face charges for shootings in the line of duty. An April analysis by The Washington Post and researchers from Bowling Green State University found only 54 officers had been charged out of the thousands of police shootings over the past decade. > > “It’s very, very rare. Most shootings are found to be justified,” said Philip Stinson, the Bowling Green State criminologist who worked on the project. > > When officers are charged, the analysis found, it usually occurred in cases, such as Geer’s, where the victim was unarmed. But there usually were other factors that made the cases stand out, such as a victim being shot in the back or video of the shooting. > > Stinson added in an e-mail that even when there was strong evidence against an officer, convictions are difficult to obtain. My emphasis. It’s that damn pesky video that prevents justice, I tells ya. Won’t someone think of the children! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6002 "2015-08-19T03:49:42Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > [Well, whattya know? White folks get shot with their hands up, too.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/former-fairfax-police-officer-charged-for-murder-of-unarmed-springfield-va-man/2015/08/17/d9b73460-3630-11e5-b673-1df005a0fb28_story.html) > > And it only took two years to decide to fire this creep. Couldn’t the cops have claimed bad lighting made it hard to see perp’s complexion? The shooting would be justified if the cops had reason to fear Geer was black, no? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6003 "2015-08-19T04:18:52Z")
I am surprised that this thread has been so dead lately, there is a lot of controversy out there that needs comment on. First (as has already been reported here), a police officer was victimized by the anti-police force in this country for shooting a criminal that was not obeying lawful police instructions (we have already resolved in this thread that this is reason enough to be labeled a criminal, see Rice, Tamir) and had a handgun within easy reach. Only a moron would not be in fear of life or serious injury in such a circumstance, but [charges have been filed against the hero that took the scumbag down](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/former-fairfax-police-officer-charged-for-murder-of-unarmed-springfield-va-man/2015/08/17/d9b73460-3630-11e5-b673-1df005a0fb28_story.html). Next, [a 17 year veteran of the wars against crime was fired for trying to keep the peace in Athens, GA](http://www.redandblack.com/uganews/just-in-athens-police-release-video-of-officer-beating-drunk/article_60fe4eac-4524-11e5-b872-8b1548f9274a.html). This hero was simply trying to restrain an unruly college student. He showed great restraint and didn’t even shoot this criminal even though he was disobeying legal instructions for a peace officer, yet he was still fired as a result of the cop-hating criminals that seem to infest this country like maggots infecting a disease ridden corpse. Next, also in the great state of Georgia, [two police officers are being indicted for murder simply for trying to take a criminal into custody](http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/two-former-east-point-officers-indicted-for-murder/nnMDf/). The ruthless criminal was sitting in a stream in handcuffs and the good officers tased him while ordering him to stand up and walk to jail. The criminal refused to comply with the order and resisted all attempts (i.e. 14 applications of said tasers) by the officers to safely incarcerate the scum. What kind of country do we live in where these heroes are persecuted in this way? Up in New York, we have some peace keepers who have been slandered by the police hating media for a crime that never happened. These [prison guards have been accused of killing an inmate who die of natural causes](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/nyregion/fishkill-prison-inmate-died-after-fight-with-officers-records-show.html?_r=0) (cardiac arrhythmia according to the article) after allegedly consuming illegal drugs in prison. The medical examiner did not find any drugs in his system but he was agitated according to to the guards and acted like he was overdosing. The guards did not mention to the ambulance crew that picked him up that anything else was out of the ordinary. Why the media gives ink to these random and spurious allegations is beyond me. There are other things out there, like the [negative comments about the heroes trying to rescue a hostage after a bank robbery went bad](http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Report-33-cops-fired-600-shots-to-stop-Stockton-6449555.php). They shot over 600 bullets at the criminals who were holding the hostage, and almost freed the poor person, but unfortunately she was hit by a bullet or two and did not survive. I do believe that these officers will be vindicated however; the hostage was legally ordered to duck and she allegedly did not comply with the order and is thus a criminal according to the resident SDMB legal experts (see this thread: Rice, Tamir). It’s a sad day in this country, the worlds bastion of freedom (that incarcerates more people than any other country in the world and has more of its citizens killed by law enforcement than any other country with the sole exception of ISIS), when our fine peace officers are even questioned by the anarchist loving almost criminals that seem to be everywhere these days. Right, Smapti? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6004 "2015-08-19T15:52:11Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > It’s a sad day in this country, the worlds bastion of freedom (that incarcerates more people than any other country in the world and has more of its citizens killed by law enforcement than any other country with the sole exception of ISIS), when our fine peace officers are even questioned by the anarchist loving almost criminals that seem to be everywhere these days. Right, Smapti? You forgot [this one](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/2-albuquerque-cops-stand-trial-fatal-shooting-homeless-man-james-n411986): > [@](#): > > An Albuquerque, New Mexico, police officer and a former detective will stand trial in the 2014 shooting death of a homeless man, a judge ruled Tuesday. > > Officer Dominique Perez and former Officer Keith Sandy will face second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter and battery charges in the death of James Boyd, 38. The homeless man’s killing was caught on an officer’s lapel camera and sparked outrage in Albuquerque over what some perceived as unnecessary lethal force. > > Boyd was clutching two knives when he was shot while camping in an unauthorized area of the city’s Sandia foothills. Police claimed that he was threatening them during a tense standoff. Perez and Sandy fired six shots at Boyd, fatally wounding him. Stun guns and bean bag rounds were also used in the standoff. > > Special prosecutor Randi McGinn said during the hearing that Boyd suffered from schizophrenia and argued that Boyd was following officers’ orders because he was shot in the back, NBC affiliate KOB reported. “Reasonable people” do not shoot others in the back, McGinn argued. What is the world coming to when police can’t kill mentally ill people by shooting them in the back? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6005 "2015-08-19T16:31:37Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Really, this has all the earmarks of a **Smapti Klean Kill**.® The only difference appears to be the lack of blackness. It really says something that, when I’m agreeing with you, you _still_ want to argue with me. Torres was _ordered_ by his superior to put his gun away. He repeatedly refused that order despite the negotiator having control of the situation, panicked and fired when he knew he shouldn’t have (as evidenced by his only firing once and then IMMEDIATELY telling his superior he was sorry). The gun was clearly not in Geer’s hands and Torres could not reasonably have believed his life was in danger at that moment. The color of a person’s skin is irrelevant to whether they are dangerous or not. Do you disagree with any of this? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6006 "2015-08-19T16:35:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The color of a person’s skin is irrelevant to whether they are dangerous or not. > > Do you disagree with any of this? I believe your partner in crime (Steophan) is the one who says black people are dangerous. For all of your faults, I do not think your motives are racial. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6007 "2015-08-19T19:44:26Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Next, [a 17 year veteran of the wars against crime was fired for trying to keep the peace in Athens, GA](http://www.redandblack.com/uganews/just-in-athens-police-release-video-of-officer-beating-drunk/article_60fe4eac-4524-11e5-b872-8b1548f9274a.html). This hero was simply trying to restrain an unruly college student. How controversial is it that the cop escalated to hitting with a baton after Roquet did not acquiesce to being cuffed, nor was affected by the pepper spray? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6008 "2015-08-19T20:37:49Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > How controversial is it Nothing says “great law enforcement” like taking a stick to drunk students head. In the old days he could have gotten away with kicking him in the balls as well, and nobody would have done nothin about it either. We are becoming soft on crime I tell you. You take away as cops right to beat the living fuck out of a drunk college student, maybe give him permanent brain damage, and the world will go to hell right quick. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6009 "2015-08-19T21:13:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It really says something that, when I’m agreeing with you, you _still_ want to argue with me. > > Torres was _ordered_ by his superior to put his gun away. He repeatedly refused that order despite the negotiator having control of the situation, panicked and fired when he knew he shouldn’t have (as evidenced by his only firing once and then IMMEDIATELY telling his superior he was sorry). The gun was clearly not in Geer’s hands and Torres could not reasonably have believed his life was in danger at that moment. The color of a person’s skin is irrelevant to whether they are dangerous or not. > > Do you disagree with any of this? So it is the fact that he was not following orders that places him at fault? That fits with your authoritarian world view, but how does it excuse the dead guy, who was similarly failing to comply with orders? By the way, I don’t give a shit about whether you agree with me on a specific case when your general reasoning is psychotically fucked up. None of these not-a-threat guys should have been killed, and it isn’t because in all the other cases there was not an order from a superior officer involved. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6010 "2015-08-19T22:48:00Z")
> **[CBS News - Breaking news, 24/7 live streaming news & top stories](https://www.cbsnews.com/)** > > Watch CBS News live and get the latest, breaking news headlines of the day for national news and world news today. One pointed a gun at police officers, the chief said. It appears two officers fired a total of four shots – one fired one shot, the other fired three shots, Dotson said. One suspect was hit, continued running, collapsed, and was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspect was a black male in his early 20s, and he had a gun reported stolen from Rolla, Mo. Result: protesters changing “BlackLivesMatter”. How dare the police shoot a guy that pointed a gun at them. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6011 "2015-08-19T23:01:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [CBS News - Breaking news, 24/7 live streaming news & top stories](http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/08/19/st-louis-police-officers-shoot-kill-suspect/) > > One pointed a gun at police officers, the chief said. > > It appears two officers fired a total of four shots – one fired one shot, the other fired three shots, Dotson said. > > One suspect was hit, continued running, collapsed, and was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspect was a black male in his early 20s, and he had a gun reported stolen from Rolla, Mo. > > Result: protesters changing “BlackLivesMatter”. How dare the police shoot a guy that pointed a gun at them. I know for myself that I have to retract all my statements about how the cops must not fire when a gun is pointed at them. I don’t see who is changing #BlackLivesMatter, though. Why are they changing it? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6012 "2015-08-19T23:42:00Z")
I’m sure he meant “chanting” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6013 "2015-08-20T00:05:40Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I’m sure he meant “chanting” Let **Hentor** have his little dig. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6014 "2015-08-20T00:13:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Let **Hentor** have his little dig. I didn’t read far enough into the story. My bad. I thought you were going for some kind of joke. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6015 "2015-08-20T05:00:45Z")
Reports of “illegal” police use of tear gas in St. Louis has gotten me wondering: what restrictions are there on its use? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6016 "2015-08-20T14:31:15Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Reports of “illegal” police use of tear gas in St. Louis has gotten me wondering: what restrictions are there on its use? Who’s claiming there was an “illegal” police use of tear gas? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6017 "2015-08-20T21:57:01Z")
I can’t find the specific thing I saw, but [this](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/us/judge-in-st-louis-orders-limits-on-police-tear-gas-use-in-ferguson.html?_r=0) probably answers my original question (the specific thing I saw argued that the gas was used on a peaceful assembly with no warnings). ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6018 "2015-08-22T18:44:29Z")
[A group of white police officers assault a black woman](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bdc_1440261958) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6019 "2015-08-22T18:48:14Z")
It’s getting to be where you can’t even walk around naked from the waist down in public and assaulting police officers anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6020 "2015-08-22T19:14:15Z")
[A 76-years old black woman is murdered by a gang of white hoodlums](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2516263/Defiant-76-year-old-woman-dies-shootout-gang-tried-rob-bingo-money.html#ixzz2mP68Hu4s) She manages to shoot one of the assailants , but dies of her wounds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=300) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=302)