# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 306
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6101 "2015-08-25T13:45:50Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Probably the white woman who complained was pissed off because the women, being a book club, could read. This, of course, meant a [**perp walk**](http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/removal-of-wine-train-passengers-ignites-social-media-storm/article_324d30f5-129b-534e-9bb8-f3e79c8d3e8b.html). \*The 11, members of a long-standing book club, boarded the Wine Train at about 11 a.m. on Saturday but were told to leave the train in St. Helena after a maître d’hotel complained about their behavior, saying they were being disruptive, according to Lisa Johnson, an Antioch author and member of the club. …After several miles of “chitchatting” among the club members, Johnson said, the train’s maître d’hotel told the group, “Your noise level is a little loud, and you have to tone it down so we don’t make others uncomfortable." “We thought the purpose of the Wine Train was to have a good time and enjoy being with a large group. No one told us of any noise ordinance. If you get a group of 11 women talking and laughing, it’s going to be loud,” Johnson said. Later, the maître d’hotel came by a second time, warning the women they would be ordered off the train if they didn’t quiet down, Johnson said. “She said people were complaining and I said, ‘Who’s complaining?’ And she said, ‘Well, people’s faces are uncomfortable,'” said Johnson. “At that point, one passenger nearby said, ‘Well, this is not a bar.’ We reacted, ‘Yes, it is a bar, a bar on wheels.’"\* > **[Removal of Wine Train passengers ignites social media storm](https://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/removal-of-wine-train-passengers-ignites-social-media-storm/article_324d30f5-129b-534e-9bb8-f3e79c8d3e8b.html)** > > It was supposed to be a relaxing afternoon in the wine country, 11 book-loving women on the luxurious Napa Valley Wine Train. But passengers say a Saturday trip ended with It appears that 11 drunks were kicked off a train because the drunks were too stupid to understand that they weren’t the only ones on that train. It’s the book club that needs sensitivity training. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6102 "2015-08-25T14:10:09Z")
Book 'em, Danno. Murmur One. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6103 "2015-08-25T14:25:13Z")
Reckless gaiety, with mirth aforethought. ---
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6104 "2015-08-25T14:37:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It appears that 11 drunks were kicked off a train because the drunks were too stupid to understand that they weren’t the only ones on that train. It’s the book club that needs sensitivity training. Well, [according to the police spokesman](http://6abc.com/news/calif-wine-train-orders-off-black-womens-book-club/956151/), > [@](#): > > The 11 women, one of them 83 years old, already were off the train when St. Helena police arrived, police spokeswoman Maria Gonzalez said. > > Wine train employees had called the police to deal with what they reported were “11 disruptive females,” Gonzalez said. > > Police arrived at the railway siding and found “there was no crime being committed … nobody was intoxicated, there were no issues.” So officers left, Gonzalez said. The company also seems to have hired a [PR person](http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4383779-181/removal-of-black-women-from?page=0) who said: > [@](#): > > Then, a posting that afternoon on the Wine Train’s Facebook page came to their attention. > > The post, which was quickly taken down after Johnson called the company, said, in part: “Following verbal and physical abuse toward other guests and staff, it was necessary to get our police involved.” > > That catapulted their objections and offense to a new level, Johnson said. > > “It hadn’t escalated to that point,” she said, “but that just set it on fire.” > > Singer attributed the post, which he described as “incorrect,” to “a junior staff member who was unaware of the actual circumstances.” > > “That did not in any way describe the situation,” he said. Another quote from him: > [@](#): > > PR consultant Sam Singer, has been hired as a spokesperson for the Napa Valley Wine Train, he says that post was a mistake. > > He also says the police were never called in to make an arrest. > > “I think the police were called to ensure that in case there had been liquor consumption that they were okay to drive home,” said Wine Train spokesperson Sam Singer. “That wasn’t the case, so it was unnecessary to have them there.” > Managers now want to make a personal apology. > > “We’re trying to reach these book club members and these women so that we can apologize in person and set things straight,” Singer said. “We want to respect them and we want them to respect and enjoy the wine train as well.” > > He said a guest is asked to leave the train at least once a month for being too loud or too intoxicated. > > But this situation could have been handled better. I think the train company needs better control of their Facebook page…but I don’t think the cops were at fault in this. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6105 "2015-08-25T14:39:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Book 'em, Danno. Murmur One. LOL! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6106 "2015-08-25T14:40:24Z")
See, this is blatant hypocrisy. 10 (allegedly) drunken adults laugh about : cops are called. One baby screams right into my ear for 5 hours straight, they don’t even have a stern talking-to with the nearest parental unit, let alone give the baby a perp crawl. Shit is all fucked up. And shit. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6107 "2015-08-25T17:47:48Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Reckless gaiety, with mirth aforethought. [This Cop Throws A Huge Hissy Fit, Threatens A Group Of Teens For SMILING (VIDEO)](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/22/this-cop-throws-a-huge-hissy-fit-and-threatens-a-group-of-teens-for-smiling-video/) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6108 "2015-08-25T17:58:42Z")
11 women, 10 of them black, in an enclosed space, drinking alcohol? Yeah… I think I’m gonna have to withhold judgment on this one for now. Having some unpleasant flashbacks to my table-waiting days. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6109 "2015-08-25T21:17:43Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > 11 women, 10 of them black, in an enclosed space, drinking alcohol? > > Yeah… I think I’m gonna have to withhold judgment on this one for now. Having some unpleasant flashbacks to my table-waiting days. Funny. The cops didn’t think that they were drunk. And they’re supposed to have a talent for noticing that kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6110 "2015-08-25T21:31:44Z")
Have we really descended to this? Where are all the unarmed citizens being shot by cops? It’s almost like shootings have decreased lately. Is that possible? ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6111 "2015-08-25T22:09:15Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Have we really descended to this? > > Where are all the unarmed citizens being shot by cops? It’s almost like shootings have decreased lately. > > Is that possible? Three unarmed shot in August, five so far unknown with regard to weapons, and two with toy weapons (who both reportedly acted in a threatening manner with the weapons). The rest of the 74 killed by police in August were reportedly armed or reported by police as using cars as weapons. Of course, we shouldn’t ignore the cases from the past where cars were reported as weapons when video or forensics did not agree. At least one instance in August was disputed by a witness, and several were of the “He’s coming right for me!” variety. A couple of the shootings were reported as the driver starting to drive away while dragging or carrying a police officer, sometimes leaning inside the vehicle, and that seems unnecessarily dangerous. I’d like to see procedures based on science and statistics. Is it more dangerous to lean in and try to grab the person, or more dangerous to let him drive away and get help apprehending him? Chases are clearly very dangerous, but I think too many decisions are based on conventional wisdom rather than actual studies of outcomes. The only time it seems like it might be safe is if the keys aren’t in the ignition. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/) Finally, let us not forget this thread is about controversial encounters, not just police shootings. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6112 "2015-08-25T22:48:53Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/sgSfCxq0hdY/maxresdefault.jpg "Corrupt Cops Caught by Their Own Cruiser Camera!!!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgSfCxq0hdY) It’s old, and long, but I love the part in the video where the cops realize they are still recording themselves. [This link should go right to it](https://youtu.be/sgSfCxq0hdY?t=29) ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6113 "2015-08-26T03:30:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > \*The 11, members of a long-standing book club, boarded the Wine Train at about 11 a.m. on Saturday but were told to leave the train in St. Helena after a maître d’hotel complained about their behavior, saying they were being disruptive, according to Lisa Johnson, an Antioch author and member of the club. > > …After several miles of “chitchatting” among the club members, Johnson said, the train’s maître d’hotel told the group, “Your noise level is a little loud, and you have to tone it down so we don’t make others uncomfortable." > > “We thought the purpose of the Wine Train was to have a good time and enjoy being with a large group. No one told us of any noise ordinance. If you get a group of 11 women talking and laughing, it’s going to be loud,” Johnson said. > > Later, the maître d’hotel came by a second time, warning the women they would be ordered off the train if they didn’t quiet down, Johnson said. > > “She said people were complaining and I said, ‘Who’s complaining?’ And she said, ‘Well, people’s faces are uncomfortable,'” said Johnson. “At that point, one passenger nearby said, ‘Well, this is not a bar.’ We reacted, ‘Yes, it is a bar, a bar on wheels.’"\* > > [Removal of Wine Train passengers ignites social media storm](http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/removal-of-wine-train-passengers-ignites-social-media-storm/article_324d30f5-129b-534e-9bb8-f3e79c8d3e8b.html) > > It appears that 11 drunks were kicked off a train because the drunks were too stupid to understand that they weren’t the only ones on that train. It’s the book club that needs sensitivity training. [According to Lisa Johnson, the club had not drunk a drop before they started being harassed by the Wine Train staff. Unless she was lying. Because you know, us blacks like to lie.](https://madamenoire.com/582779/feeling-the-pressure-napa-valley-wine-train-apologizes-book-club-leader-does-not-accept/) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6114 "2015-08-26T14:57:54Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > [According to Lisa Johnson, the club had not drunk a drop before they started being harassed by the Wine Train staff. Unless she was lying. Because you know, us blacks like to lie.](https://madamenoire.com/582779/feeling-the-pressure-napa-valley-wine-train-apologizes-book-club-leader-does-not-accept/) Where does it say that the club had not drunk a drop before they started being harassed by the Wine Train staff? Your linked article has a picture of two members of the book club, plus two other hands, holding five glasses of wine. Maybe that was a picture from a different tour? Or maybe it wasn’t wine? Grape juice perhaps? Or Gatorade? How about Kool-Aid? I suppose people often take the wine train tour without drinking wine. FYI - I don’t know you well enough to call you a liar. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6115 "2015-08-26T15:09:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Where does it say that the club had not drunk a drop before they started being harassed by the Wine Train staff? > > Your linked article has a picture of two members of the book club, plus two other hands, holding five glasses of wine. Maybe that was a picture from a different tour? > > Or maybe it wasn’t wine? Grape juice perhaps? Or Gatorade? How about Kool-Aid? I suppose people often take the wine train tour without drinking wine. > > FYI - I don’t know you well enough to call you a liar. In the linked video interview. You can listen to her own words. [Another link directly to the interview.](http://www.msnbc.com/thomas-roberts/watch/black-women-thrown-off-napa-wine-train-512810051976) ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6116 "2015-08-26T15:23:27Z")
In the interview, you can hear Lisa Johnson say that almost half of her group don’t drink at all. And since the Wine Train tour accepts CHILDREN, (I checked their website), I think that it’s safe to say that people do indeed take the tour without drinking wine. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6117 "2015-08-26T15:27:37Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > In the linked video interview. You can listen to her own words. > > [Another link directly to the interview.](http://www.msnbc.com/thomas-roberts/watch/black-women-thrown-off-napa-wine-train-512810051976) Every story has multiple sides. Was the on-air MSNBC woman (white/blue/black dress) supposed to be interviewing the book club member or was she there to feed lines to the book club member? ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6118 "2015-08-26T15:31:39Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Every story has multiple sides. > > Was the on-air MSNBC woman (white/blue/black dress) supposed to be interviewing the book club member or was she there to feed lines to the book club member? So the hell what? According to the POLICE, the women were not drunk. NO ONE connected to the story now alleges that the women were drunk. Quit digging. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6119 "2015-08-26T15:40:36Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > So the hell what? According to the POLICE, the women were not drunk. NO ONE connected to the story now alleges that the women were drunk. Quit digging. The woman who now says they were not drinking posted pictures of themselves drinking on a drinking train. :rolleyes: The 10/11/12 women (depending on which story you read) were asked to tone it down because they were disturbing the other passengers. The book club claims that asking them to tone it down is racist. The book club was kicked off the train and the rest of the passengers enjoyed their train ride. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6120 "2015-08-26T16:09:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The woman who now says they were not drinking posted pictures of themselves drinking on a drinking train. :rolleyes: > > The 10/11/12 women (depending on which story you read) were asked to tone it down because they were disturbing the other passengers. > > The book club claims that asking them to tone it down is racist. > > The book club was kicked off the train and the rest of the passengers enjoyed their train ride. The Wine Train admits that their actions were wrong, totally uncalled for, that they lied when they said on Facebook that the book club verbally and physically abused employees and other patrons, and that they and their employees need to undergo sensitivity training. Enjoy your ride. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=305) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=307)