# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/601 "2014-12-25T02:41:13Z")
Here’s a pic of the gun at the scene with the evidence marker next to it: > another, better, pic of gun at scene [![](http://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/12/24/1419415478410/43b3cde1-1a3c-4900-b8e4-67e6ce52765b-620x385.jpeg?w=620&s=c542d2cb6286bf312ea5157d62ad2078) ](http://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/12/24/1419415478410/43b3cde1-1a3c-4900-b8e4-67e6ce52765b-620x385.jpeg?w=620&s=c542d2cb6286bf312ea5157d62ad2078) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/602 "2014-12-25T02:48:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Here’s a pic of the gun at the scene with the evidence marker next to it: > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/valeriehahn/status/547655923872043008/photo/1) > > another, better, pic of gun at scene > > [http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/12/24/1419415478410/43b3cde1-1a3c-4900-b8e4-67e6ce52765b-620x385.jpeg](http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/12/24/1419415478410/43b3cde1-1a3c-4900-b8e4-67e6ce52765b-620x385.jpeg) No, no, that’s just his pointing hand. It fell off and turned to chrome when he was shot. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/603 "2014-12-25T02:51:28Z")
[![](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_nbcnews-ux-960-700,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2014_52/822861/141224-berkeley-handgun-01.jpg) ](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_nbcnews-ux-960-700,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2014_52/822861/141224-berkeley-handgun-01.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/604 "2014-12-25T02:52:30Z")
As usual, this incident is proof that everyone believes what they want to believe. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/605 "2014-12-25T03:27:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So you can see a gun in the video? Yes ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/606 "2014-12-25T03:45:26Z")
Enhance 224 to 176… Pan right Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop. Enhance… I don’t know _what_ the heck that is. Maybe I missed it, but is there something that says “Object No.5 is a gun.”? OK, type, make, caliber? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/607 "2014-12-25T03:54:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Enhance 224 to 176… Pan right Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop. Enhance… > > I don’t know _what_ the heck that is. Maybe I missed it, but is there something that says “Object No.5 is a gun.”? OK, type, make, caliber? You don’t think [this](http://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2014_52/822861/141224-berkeley-handgun-01_c3991f47566a35e20ca2f26afd1f5f4c.nbcnews-ux-960-700.jpg) is a gun? Also - [zoomed in surveillance video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jIfDDB_QBk) ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/608 "2014-12-25T04:08:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Enhance 224 to 176… Pan right Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop. Enhance… > > I don’t know _what_ the heck that is. Maybe I missed it, but is there something that says “Object No.5 is a gun.”? OK, type, make, caliber? …and here we have found our problem… **'luci** iapparently smoked a formaldehyde laced blunt at a Vietnam protest in his formative years rendering him blind. They’ll introduce the dog with the metal handlebar gear and orange apron after the next commercial break.\ ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/609 "2014-12-25T04:16:09Z")
It’s pretty clear at about 0:25 in that video, a good minute before the shooting occurs, that the victim has the gun in his hand. I suppose the cops traveled back in time and planted it in his hand before the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/610 "2014-12-25T05:30:51Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > So… the video of the incident is out there. It’s not very hard to find. It’s seems pretty cut and dry to me. Dude pointed a gun at cops within extremely close proximity. **Not sure this one is debatable.** > > Are we ignoring it? Are we rationalizing it? Are we saying it’s edited, doctored, made up? Help me out. I got signs to make for the annual Cops are Racist Thugs Christmas Pageant. About as righteous as it’s possible for a shooting by a cop to be. Too bad for all involved but the cop should be cleared quickly after a routine investigation. Note that there were a good number of witnesses nearby. We haven’t read about any of them claiming the gun was planted, have we? The disturbing part about any protests of this particular shooting is that they show how terribly the police are distrusted by much of the public. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/611 "2014-12-25T06:33:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Here’s a pic of the gun at the scene with the evidence marker next to it: > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/valeriehahn/status/547655923872043008/photo/1) > > another, better, pic of gun at scene > > [http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/12/24/1419415478410/43b3cde1-1a3c-4900-b8e4-67e6ce52765b-620x385.jpeg](http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/12/24/1419415478410/43b3cde1-1a3c-4900-b8e4-67e6ce52765b-620x385.jpeg) Well, yeah that’s a gun lying on the ground. I have not yet seen a gun in the hands of the suspect pointing at the cops. I’m not saying the cops lied, I’m just saying that the video is not clear enough to see anything at this point. > [@elucidator](#): > > Enhance 224 to 176… Pan right Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop. Enhance… She’s a replicant, you know, right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/612 "2014-12-25T06:38:49Z")
Yeah? Well, so’s your…! (Sorry, **John** , still a little touchy about that). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/613 "2014-12-25T06:56:02Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > …and here we have found our problem… **'luci** iapparently smoked a formaldehyde laced blunt at a Vietnam protest in his formative years rendering him blind. They’ll introduce the dog with the metal handlebar gear and orange apron after the next commercial break.\ Oh, OK, you see it so clear, tell me what you see? Is it a revolver or an automatic? Large caliber or small? Is it resting on something? In the one where the “5” isn’t reversed, is that the barrel, with the opening pointed in the observers general direction? For that matter, anybody else who sees this so clearly, tell me. Mind, I’m not saying that what I am looking at is not a gun, I’m just saying it doesn’t _clearly_ look like a gun to me. Seems to me somewhere between Rorschach and Heisenberg. And if its all true, so what? Want to put up a number sign at the front, “X number of days since the last unjustifiable shooting”? Has the fourteen day barrier been breached? As far as my chemical enthusiasms, I’m not the one talking about dogs with handlebars and orange aprons. Maybe I did too much, maybe you didn’t do enough. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/614 "2014-12-25T07:13:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, OK, you see it so clear, tell me what you see? Is it a revolver or an automatic? Large caliber or small? Is it resting on something? In the one where the “5” isn’t reversed, is that the barrel, with the opening pointed in the observers general direction? > > For that matter, anybody else who sees this so clearly, tell me. Mind, I’m not saying that what I am looking at is not a gun, I’m just saying it doesn’t _clearly_ look like a gun to me. Seems to me somewhere between Rorschach and Heisenberg. Jesus fucking Christ… No admittedly… I can’t read the god damned serial number on the side of the gun but I can look at the video and say either a. It’s a gun or b. it’s the worst fucking case of rheumatoid arthritis I’ve ever seen or c. John fucking Merrick rose from the dead and pointed one of his ghastly deformed tentacles at the cop. Now being that there was a gun found at the scene, I’m gonna do a little deductive reasoning and surmise it was “a”. YM clearly V ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/615 "2014-12-25T07:48:12Z")
Didn’t ask for serial numbers. Is it a revolver, with the characteristic bulge? Is the muzzle facing in the direction of the observer, or away? You seem to be rather forceful and aggressive in your opinion and your derision, so naturally I expect a certain clarity to your vision. I don’t think its unreasonable to ask you to describe what you see. And if you can’t, well, you can’t, no biggie, we all have our limitations. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/616 "2014-12-25T08:06:11Z")
A center lefty news blog I respect, _Talking Points Memo_, has a news story up about the mayor’s press conference. Consensus seems to be building that the shooting was justified, if tragic. \* TPM \*has played pretty square over the years, so I will lean that way as well, barring strong and certain contradictory evidence. But damned if I will ever call killing anybody a “good shoot”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/617 "2014-12-25T15:55:53Z")
I’ll be surprised if this turns out to be different from the way the mainstream media is reporting it now (the mayor’s press conference was all over the news last night), but anyone who is certain he sees a gun in the grainy video is kidding himself. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/618 "2014-12-25T16:01:24Z")
Even so, of course, one big argument of protesters so far is that police reaction to even justified shootings, or ones involving actual peril, differ by race (positively towards whites, negatively towards minorities), so there may still be a lesson here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/619 "2014-12-25T17:29:13Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Even so, of course, one big argument of protesters so far is that police reaction to even justified shootings, or ones involving actual peril, differ by race (positively towards whites, negatively towards minorities), so there may still be a lesson here. Protestors, yes. Rock throwers, no. Also “no” for the moroon who threw a firecracker at a gas pump. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/620 "2014-12-25T17:31:34Z")
When did I ever mention any of that? :😕: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=32)