# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 312
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6221 "2015-09-12T19:19:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > … The police swear up and down that he lunged at them and that’s why they had to shoot him. And yet an autopsy later found that six bullets entered through his back–including the fatal shot. [Video shows the fuckers shot him while he was running away from them](http://fox13now.com/2014/11/06/new-footage-from-fatal-shooting-of-darrien-hunt-released-family-attorney-responds/). However, there is a faint, blurry greyish-blue line here. If they were not, at the time, certain that the sword was bated, one might consider it possible that they were acting to prevent a threat to others in the mall. That said, I believe that every time the police have to deal with a situation that represents a possible hazard to others, they always should have a negotiator. One out of every three officers on a scene needs to be the guy trying to talk the situation down. _Every time_. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6222 "2015-09-12T19:27:04Z")
That’s the thing. At one point people were trained to de-escalate situations. Why is this idea even being questioned by some LEOs and their supporters? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6223 "2015-09-12T19:32:58Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Mother rejects payout, refuses to stay silent in lawsuit against cops who killed her son](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mother-rejects-payout-refusing-to-stay-silent-in-lawsuit-against-cops-who-killed-her-son/ar-AAecbwL?li=AAa0dzB) > > For those who don’t want to click, her son was cosplaying at a mall–dressed as a anime character with a metal sword. It had a rounded end, but that didn’t stop people from calling the police. The police swear up and down that he lunged at them and that’s why they had to shoot him. And yet an autopsy later found that six bullets entered through his back–including the fatal shot. [Video shows the fuckers shot him while he was running away from them](http://fox13now.com/2014/11/06/new-footage-from-fatal-shooting-of-darrien-hunt-released-family-attorney-responds/). > > This mother has my deepest admiration. It would be easy to take the money and try to move on, but she instead she has chosen to take a stand against this injustice. Ok. Let’s look at the situation. You’re a police officer. You are called to a place because people see a guy with a long samurai sword walking around and are a bit concerned. You get there. You call to the guy, and he runs away from you. Now - do you think the assumption that the guy with the sword is a danger to others (not just to you) and needs to be stopped, with deadly force if necessary, is “reasonable”? What if the guy is a lunatic, and after you let him get away from you because you don’t want to shoot him, he kills several people with that sword of his? Don’t you think you will be (rightly) blamed for your behavior in not preventing those deaths? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6224 "2015-09-12T19:54:03Z")
Ah, yes. That hallowed state of killing people based on slippery slope hypotheticals. Because yanno, the cops don’t have the means or manpower to follow and corner the guy, ask questions, figure out what this alien and novel “cosplay” thing is about. It really is undeniably and unquestionably better to just blow everybody away. Don’t y’alls feel so SAFE ? Also FREE ? Now, of course, some bleeding heart pansies might suggest that they could have approached the guy all friendly-like and ascertained the nature of his sword wieldingness first. To these faggots I say nay nay ! This is a war ! He was the enemy ! Because… something, whatever. The point is, SAFE. Also FREE. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6225 "2015-09-12T19:59:07Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Ah, yes. That hallowed state of killing people based on slippery slope hypotheticals. Because yanno, the cops don’t have the means or manpower to follow and corner the guy, ask questions, figure out what this alien and novel “cosplay” thing is about. He was running away. He is a young guy and probably faster than the cops. How exactly do you propose they “follow and corner the guy, ask questions”? > [@](#): > > Now, of course, some bleeding heart pansies might suggest that they could have approached the guy all friendly-like and ascertained the nature of his sword wieldingness first. And how do you know they didn’t try that before he ran away? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6226 "2015-09-12T20:09:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He was running away. He is a young guy and probably faster than the cops. How exactly do you propose they “follow and corner the guy, ask questions”? > And how do you know they didn’t try that before he ran away? You chase him. No one should be shot in the back and killed over hypotheticals. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6227 "2015-09-12T20:32:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He was running away. He is a young guy and probably faster than the cops. Cops have radios. And cars. And helicopters. And the assistance of mall security and its CCTV system. There’s no need for any physical exertion. Especially when the guy with the sword has not demonstrated any propensity for smacking people over the head with it _whatsoever_. ETA : on the other hand, adrenaline and stupidity are both pretty harsh mistresses. They don’t even swallow. ---
**Author:** ![bosbfdsfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@bosbfdsfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bosbfdsfd)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6228 "2015-09-12T22:19:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Like people keep telling you, today is the safest era for any police officer to live in. Far fewer police are being killed than in any previous year and it’s trending downward. > > Which makes your statement ignorant, (falsely) alarmist, flat out wrong and inflammatory. > > The police and the people like you are only upset that we as a society are waking up to the unjust and unwarranted levels of violence coming from our law enforcement agencies and are demanding this be changed. A few dozen sobbing liberals who want more people to become criminal victims isn’t “we as a society,” sorry. > [@](#): > > We can’t do our jobs!" is flat out bullshit, and if you as a police officer think this is the case, then you completely misunderstand the point of your job and how to do it. Yes, cops should listen to the people who hate them about how to do their jobs correctly. ---
**Author:** ![bosbfdsfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@bosbfdsfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bosbfdsfd)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6229 "2015-09-12T22:20:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Mother rejects payout, refuses to stay silent in lawsuit against cops who killed her son](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mother-rejects-payout-refusing-to-stay-silent-in-lawsuit-against-cops-who-killed-her-son/ar-AAecbwL?li=AAa0dzB) > > For those who don’t want to click, her son was cosplaying at a mall–dressed as a anime character with a metal sword. It had a rounded end, but that didn’t stop people from calling the police. The police swear up and down that he lunged at them and that’s why they had to shoot him. And yet an autopsy later found that six bullets entered through his back–including the fatal shot. [Video shows the fuckers shot him while he was running away from them](http://fox13now.com/2014/11/06/new-footage-from-fatal-shooting-of-darrien-hunt-released-family-attorney-responds/). > > This mother has my deepest admiration. It would be easy to take the money and try to move on, but she instead she has chosen to take a stand against this injustice. Don’t run away from the cops and you’ll still be alive. So simple even a liberal could understand it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6230 "2015-09-12T22:23:44Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#): > > Don’t run away from the cops and you’ll still be alive. So simple even a liberal could understand it. Why doesn’t it surprise me that someone like you idolizes people cowardly enough to shoot someone in the back? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6231 "2015-09-12T22:25:20Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > You chase him. No one should be shot in the back and killed over hypotheticals. > [@Kobal2](#): > > Cops have radios. And cars. And helicopters. And the assistance of mall security and its CCTV system. There’s no need for any physical exertion. Especially when the guy with the sword has not demonstrated any propensity for smacking people over the head with it _whatsoever_. Cars, radios and helicopters are no big help if the guy decided to hack a few people to pieces with his sword at that moment (and no, the police apparently had no idea that the sword was for blunted). Garner v Tennessee. deadly force “may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others”. So - is it reasonable to think that someone that carries a big samurai sword, sees the police and runs “poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others”? Moral of the story: if you carry a sword, and you run at the sight of the police, you are a candidate for the Darwin award. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6232 "2015-09-12T22:44:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Moral of the story: if you carry a sword, and you run at the sight of the police, you are a candidate for the Darwin award. What kind of ignorant-ass shit is that? Ran at the sight of the cops? [The poster-frame still of this video](http://youtu.be/kYdadBLLiYM) clearly shows that you did not look into the story and just chose to spew out your fuckwit bias about it. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6233 "2015-09-12T22:47:33Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#): > > Don’t run away from the cops and you’ll still be alive. So simple even a liberal could understand it. And don’t run away from criminals and you’ll still be alive. (The cop that shot him is a criminal… now.) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6234 "2015-09-12T22:50:18Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > And don’t run away from criminals and you’ll still be alive. (The cop that shot him is a criminal… now.) The shooting was found, after investigation, to be justified. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6235 "2015-09-12T22:51:30Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What kind of ignorant-ass shit is that? Ran at the sight of the cops? [The poster-frame still of this video](http://youtu.be/kYdadBLLiYM) clearly shows that you did not look into the story and just chose to spew out your fuckwit bias about it. You mean the part that says “he was still brandishing the sword as he ran from the cops”? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6236 "2015-09-12T22:52:08Z")
The mother is right to not roll over on this. Something doesn’t add up. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqofq3L07os) youtube video shows a photo of Darrien right before he was killed by the police (fast forward to 0:57). In the photo, he’s standing (and smiling!) with the two police officers who killed him. Moments later, they’re chasing after him and literally he’s running for his life. WTF. You want to know what’s ironic? Utah is an open-carry state. Folks shat their pants because he was walking around with a holstered toy sword, but I bet no one calls the cops when they see something like [this](http://www.motherjones.com/files/target-open-carry-3-630.jpg) at the mall. America is so fucked up. Who needs the Onion when you’ve got the six o’clock news? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6237 "2015-09-12T22:54:02Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You want to know what’s ironic? Utah is an open-carry state. Folks shat their pants because he was walking around with a holstered toy sword, but I bet no one calls the cops when they see something like [this](http://www.motherjones.com/files/target-open-carry-3-630.jpg) at the mall. If someone was carrying an AR15 and ran from the cops, they would be just as justified to shoot him. Because they would reasonably suspect that such a person “poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6238 "2015-09-12T23:00:26Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You mean the part that says “he was still brandishing the sword as he ran from the cops”? “Poster frame” means the frame that the video displays before it gets run (e.g., the video’s thumbnail image), which is typically the frame in the middle. When I see that movie, before I start it, I see the frame that **monstro** describes (a bystander still shot), where he is standing near the police car (around 0:58) and does not look the least bit fearful. So your “ran at the sight of the cops”) is utterly loathsome bullshit (also referred to as “ **Terr** speak”). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6239 "2015-09-12T23:02:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqofq3L07os) youtube video shows a photo of Darrien right before he was killed by the police (fast forward to 0:57). In the photo, he’s standing (and smiling!) with the two police officers who killed him. Moments later, they’re chasing after him and literally he’s running for his life. > > WTF. > **[Utah County Attorney: Officers were justified in Darrien Hunt shooting](https://www.fox13now.com/2014/11/03/darrien-hunt-shooting-ruled-justified)** > > UTAH COUNTY, Utah — An officer-involved shooting that killed a 22-year-old Saratoga Springs man in September was justified, Utah County Attorney Jeff Buhman said Monday. Buhman announced his findings after a nearly 2-month long investigation into the... When Cpl. Schauerhamer and Officer Judson approached Hunt outside a Saratoga Springs Top Stop convenience store, investigators said their entire exchange only last 37 seconds. Both officers noticed Hunt was carrying a sword in a sheath, and as they spoke, Schauerhamer asked him to put it down. “I can’t do that,” Hunt said, according to documents. “It’s my sword.” That’s when Hunt lunged at both of them, according to Buhman. "As Mr. Hunt was speaking with the officers, abruptly and without any apparent provocation, withdrew the sword from its sheath, and immediately swung or stabbed it toward at least one of the officers,” said Buhman. In response, Schauerhamer started shooting, prompting Hunt to take off. Both officers chased after him and three more shots were fired as Hunt turned a corner toward the nearby Panda Express restaurant. In total, seven shots were fired, with only one coming from Judson’s gun. Buhman explained that Schauerhamer was the closest to Hunt and was worried he was heading in the direction of more people as he ran. WTF is right - but it is the WTF to your WTF. As in “WTF is wrong with you - do you think that the cops were talking to a smiling guy and suddenly decided to kill him out of the blue?” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6240 "2015-09-12T23:08:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If someone was carrying an AR15 and ran from the cops, they would be just as justified to shoot him. Because they would reasonably suspect that such a person “poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others”. Anyone can have a gun on them. Anyone can have a lethal weapon on them that the police don’t know about. Is death a fair consequence of running away from the police? Wouldn’t resisting arrest only be a misdemeanor, not a capital offense? We live in the year 2015. Surely we have evolved the technology that could take someone out without frickin’ killing them and putting bystanders in harm’s way? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=311) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=313)