# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 316
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6301 "2015-09-16T16:25:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The truth always comes out. The truth will make you fret. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6302 "2015-09-16T17:38:40Z")
I’m rather in favor of Law & Order, and accept that cops can use slightly unethical means to get confessions, or subject suspicious people to scrutiny. But those are not what the complaints are about. Cops are tazing and shooting innocent people, out of stupidity, cowardice and/or malice. More Americans are killed by cops than are killed by endocarditis or by meningitis or by tuberculosis, et cetera. And in addition to killings, cops paralyze or maim innocent people, or drive them to suicide. (Oh I forgot: Bland wasn’t “innocent” she got out of asshole cop’s way without first signalling.) How do they **Smapteophan** bots reconcile that cops in civilized countries don’t behave like American cops? Is it just more American Exceptionalism? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6303 "2015-09-16T18:24:37Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > “the word “discipline” has unhappy connotations of punishment and repression” And sex, don’t forget about the sexual connotations ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6304 "2015-09-16T18:25:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > How do they **Smapteophan** bots reconcile that cops in civilized countries don’t behave like American cops? Hell, how do you deal with the way really corrupt and violent cops behave in uncivilized countries? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6305 "2015-09-16T20:44:35Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > And sex, don’t forget about the sexual connotations Funny how the police also seem to be heavily into that bondage thing. ---
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6306 "2015-09-16T22:14:59Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Link? What does them wearing sandals have to do with anything? > > Loathe as I am to side with doorhinge, he’s right about the word thug. It might have gained some racist connotations very recently, but that doesn’t mean that’s the _only_ meaning. No link, just a shared post on FB, which is why I asked if anybody else heard. And they couldn’t very well run away from the crime in sandals. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6307 "2015-09-16T22:31:42Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > How do they **Smapteophan** bots reconcile that cops in civilized countries don’t behave like American cops? Is it just more American Exceptionalism? Well, obviously, those countries are not civilized. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6308 "2015-09-17T12:06:38Z")
I had to dig back to find when we first discussed this: > [@AtomicDog](#): > > An oldie from last summer: > > [Man arrested for walking while black](http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/spd-notice/) > > I see people using golf clubs as walking sticks all the time. And apparently, no one bothered to review the dashcam video to check the lying cop’s story before throwing the poor guy in jail. At the time, Officer Whitlatch “received counseling from her supervisor”, which the Chief of Police deemed appropriate and plenty harsh enough. Now, 14 months after the incident, former-Officer Whitlach has been fired:[ > [@](#): > > Whitlatch’s “actions towards [Wingate] violated Department Manual Section 5.140(2), which states that ‘Employees shall not make decisions or take actions that are influenced by bias, prejudice or discriminatory intent,’” the disciplinary action report read. > > The report went on to address the officer: “Your perceptions of race and other protected categories appear to be so deeply seated that they likely impacted the authoritarian manner in which you treated this man and your refusal to deviate from that approach towards an individual whose actions did not warrant such treatment.” > > “Your inability to understand, even in hindsight, that your behavior was unnecessarily aggressive, an abuse of discretion, and negatively impacted the community’s confidence in this police service, offers me no pathway to confidence that your behavior will improve or change,” the document added. “Without this ability to learn from your mistakes, understand how you can improve and do better, and recognize your own errors, you are unable to effectively function as an officer.” ]([Seattle Cop Fired After Arresting Black Man Using Golf Club as a Cane](https://news.vice.com/article/seattle-cop-fired-after-arresting-black-man-using-golf-club-as-a-cane)) Her union is still considering whether to not to appeal (they do have legal duty to advocate for everyone working under their CBA, after all), but for now the system appears to be working, however slowly. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6309 "2015-09-17T12:32:21Z")
You know, it should be a felony for a cop to lie, in order to illegally arrest somebody. Of course then you have to have another police force to police the police. And then another one to watch those police … Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6310 "2015-09-17T12:36:03Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6311 "2015-09-17T12:40:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > At the time, Officer Whitlatch “received counseling from her supervisor”, which the Chief of Police deemed appropriate and plenty harsh enough. Now, 14 months after the incident, former-Officer Whitlach has been fired:[url=[Seattle Cop Fired After Arresting Black Man Using Golf Club as a Cane](https://news.vice.com/article/seattle-cop-fired-after-arresting-black-man-using-golf-club-as-a-cane)] The “even in hindsight” bit leads me to believe that they have had ongoing attitude problems from this officer. Had the counseling taken, she might not have been fired. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6312 "2015-09-17T13:01:48Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Hell, how do you deal with the way really corrupt and violent cops behave in uncivilized countries? Which ones are we choosing to compare ourselves to here? Civilized or uncivilized? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6313 "2015-09-17T17:00:43Z")
Some dude on FB wants to start a “safe harbor” meme, where homeowners put a mark on the curb in front of their house to show that they “support the police and have their backs”. [Snopes, that wet blanket site, notes that this might not be the best idea](http://m.snopes.com/safe-harbor-initiative-blue-strip/). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6314 "2015-09-17T17:04:16Z")
[Police in Broward County allegedly sicced K9 unit on two graffiti artists who had surrendered.](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/i-think-hes-still-hungry-florida-cops-allegedly-order-gruesome-k-9-attack-on-graffiti-artists/) (WARNING: Graphic photo at top of linked page.) [ > [@](#): > > “I came out and the first thing I said was, ‘Here are my hands, I’m sorry, I give up,'” he insisted. > > According to Claveria, Deputy Gerald “Gerry” Wengert pointed an assault rifle at his head while BSO Detective Davis Acevedo ordered the K-9 unit to attack. > > “It was him ripping into me and gnawing,” Claveria pointed out. “I’ve never had an animal attack me that way and it felt like it was never going to stop.” > > The deputies asserted in the arrest report that the dog had to also be let loose on Pellegrino because he refused to surrender. But Pellegrino argued that wasn’t true. > > “One said, ‘I think he’s ready to eat again,’ and someone said, ‘Oh, I think he’s still hungry,” Pellegrino remarked, observing that he had two choice: “Either sit here and let this dog eat you or do something stupid and get shot in the head.” > > The deputies then moved the dog to his other leg, Pellegrino said. > > “They kept saying, like, ‘Eat, boy. Eat, boy,’ And they were pulling the dog back every time he would latch onto me so not only was I being bit, but torn.” ]([http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/i-think-hes-still-hungry-florida-cops-allegedly-order-gruesome-k-9-attack-on-graffiti-artists/](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/i-think-hes-still-hungry-florida-cops-allegedly-order-gruesome-k-9-attack-on-graffiti-artists/)) [Here’s the original story from WPGL; it contains quite a bit more detail than the Raw Story link](http://www.local10.com/news/gruesome-deputy-k9-attack-leads-to-lawsuit/35314180). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6315 "2015-09-17T17:24:06Z")
Oh god, more complete fucking morons deciding they’re somehow “backup” for cops? No, no and more NO. Having 400 pound Jimmy coming running out of his house with his AR-15 in his hands looking for trouble and thinking he’s there to help the police is a disaster (and dead people) waiting to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6316 "2015-09-17T18:10:49Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Some dude on FB wants to start a “safe harbor” meme, where homeowners put a mark on the curb in front of their house to show that they “support the police and have their backs”. [Snopes, that wet blanket site, notes that this might not be the best idea](http://m.snopes.com/safe-harbor-initiative-blue-strip/). I suspect that the people who are the most vocal about being pro police when it’s black people being killed will also be the first ones to turn on the police when its an issue they care about. There’s probably a significant overlap between the people who think the police were justified in murdering whichever black person was murdered this week, and with the people who were threatening to shoot whichever government officials were trying to enforcing grazing rights laws. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6317 "2015-09-17T19:51:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Here’s the original story from WPGL; it contains quite a bit more detail than the Raw Story link. (post shortened) Pellegrino and Claveria explained that they had illegally snuck (trespassed) on to the Pompano Beach train yard, at 2:00 am, in order to vandalize railroad and privately owned property. _Yes, we violated the law in order to break more laws_. Pellegrino and Claveria claim they didn’t run from police. According to the article - _BSO deputies reports don’t refute that, but BSO Detective Davis Acevedo, who handles a K-9 partner named Dino, reported that Pellegrino and Claveria refused to come out from under the train._ These two criminals, Pellegrino and Claveria, object to being detained on railroad property at 2:00, by a K9 officer. _“We didn’t run”, said the criminals. “They refused to come out”, said the police._ These two criminals found a lawyer (or the lawyer found them?) who was willing to file a lawsuit on their behalf. Is there any possibility that these two criminals might be lying about what happened after they had illegally entered the train yard at 2:00 am to vandalize property that obviously didn’t belong to them? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6318 "2015-09-17T19:57:06Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Is there any possibility that these two criminals might be lying about what happened after they had illegally entered the train yard at 2:00 am to vandalize property that obviously didn’t belong to them? Yes. Is there any possibility the police are lying? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6319 "2015-09-17T20:03:18Z")
After all, everyone knows that the penalty for trespassing is to be eaten alive. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6320 "2015-09-17T20:07:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yes. > > Is there any possibility the police are lying? The possibility exists, that’s why there are court cases. Hopefully, the facts will become known before the All K9 Lives Matters groups burn and loot the train yard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=315) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=317)