# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 317
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6321 "2015-09-17T20:09:01Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > After all, everyone knows that the penalty for trespassing is to be eaten alive. Do you trespass often? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6322 "2015-09-17T20:38:05Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The possibility exists, that’s why there are court cases. Cool, so what’s your argument? You basically agree with everyone in the thread. Except for the stupid “burning and looting” thing, but I guess you had to bring the IQ of your post down somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6323 "2015-09-17T21:02:33Z")
[Video Shows Cops Wrestle a Black Teen to the Ground for Walking in the Street > [@](#): > > “The kid got stopped for ‘jaywalking’ when he barely stepped out of the bus he was 2 feet away from the sidewalk,” Avendaño wrote. “The cop was telling him to take a se[a]t but the teen kept walking to his bus but the cop kept grabbing his arm & the kid took off the cop’s hand off his arm so the cop took out his baton & that’s when I started recording.” ]([Video Shows Cops Wrestle a Black Teen to the Ground for Walking in the Street](https://news.vice.com/article/video-shows-cops-wrestle-a-black-teen-to-the-ground-for-walking-in-the-street))Video at the link. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6324 "2015-09-17T21:07:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Video Shows Cops Wrestle a Black Teen to the Ground for Walking in the Street](https://news.vice.com/article/video-shows-cops-wrestle-a-black-teen-to-the-ground-for-walking-in-the-street)Video at the link. > [@](#): > > Police in Stockton, California, tackled a black 16-year-old to the ground and put him in handcuffs after he allegedly walked in a bus lane **and refused to comply with an officer’s request** to get back on the sidewalk. > > “For safety reasons, the officer told the young man to get on the sidewalk,” Silva said. “After the teenager **refused to comply and used obscene language** , the officer went over and a there was a scuffle.” It’s almost as if they deliberately wrote a misleading headline that omits key information in order to provoke visceral outrage in their readers. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6325 "2015-09-17T21:08:45Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Do you trespass often? You really are unhinged for thinking that whether or not I trespass is relevant to whether or not trespassers should be eaten alive. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6326 "2015-09-17T21:12:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s almost as if they deliberately wrote a misleading headline that omits key information in order to provoke visceral outrage in their readers. I’m surprised you didn’t highlight this from the story: > [@](#): > > “If everyone would just comply with lawful orders from the police,” he [Silva] added, “we wouldn’t have to use force in the first place.” Translation: Yes, we’re the police and we get to fuck with you for whatever reason–including for our amusement–and you just have to take it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6327 "2015-09-17T21:13:58Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Translation: Yes, we’re the police and we get to fuck with you for whatever reason–including for our amusement–and you just have to take it. Or people could try obeying the law, following the rules, and being respectful of American democracy. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6328 "2015-09-17T21:16:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Or people could try obeying the law, following the rules, and being respectful of American democracy. Does that include the police? Because in your world, it seems anything they say is a “lawful” order and must be obeyed. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6329 "2015-09-17T21:22:50Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Does that include the police? Because in your world, it seems anything they say is a “lawful” order and must be obeyed. It’s almost as if they think it’s their job to enforce the law or something. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6330 "2015-09-17T21:26:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s almost as if they think it’s their job to enforce the law or something. It is. The problems arise when the police think they’re above the law. Or, when they’re just thick idiots whose solution to conflict is physical brutality. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6331 "2015-09-17T21:27:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s almost as if they deliberately wrote a misleading headline that omits key information in order to provoke visceral outrage in their readers. What was misleading about the headline? Did the video not show cops wrestling a teen to the ground? Was the reason for that takedown unrelated to his walking in the street? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6332 "2015-09-17T21:27:56Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Or, when they’re just thick idiots whose solution to conflict is physical brutality. They should resolve conflicts with what? Harsh language? Stern finger-wagging? Freestyle rap battles? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6333 "2015-09-17T21:29:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Did the video not show cops wrestling a teen to the ground? Well, no, it didn’t. The video doesn’t start until after the “takedown”. > [@](#): > > Was the reason for that takedown unrelated to his walking in the street? Well, no, it wasn’t. He wasn’t arrested for jaywalking; he was arrested for his refusal to stop jaywalking and to respond to the order by cursing at the officer. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6334 "2015-09-17T21:31:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They should resolve conflicts with what? Harsh language? Stern finger-wagging? Freestyle rap battles? You are aware that it is possible for them to resolve that situation without violence, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6335 "2015-09-17T21:33:01Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You are aware that it is possible for them to resolve that situation without violence, right? Do tell. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6336 "2015-09-17T21:39:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, no, it didn’t. The video doesn’t start until after the “takedown”. No, you’re wrong. You’re very clearly wrong. You also fail at reading comprehension. The takedown occurs at 1:16 in the video. Note the word “cops” in the headline. The takedown was clearly the act of multiple officers. > [@Smapti](#): > > Well, no, it wasn’t. He wasn’t arrested for jaywalking; he was arrested for his refusal to stop jaywalking and to respond to the order by cursing at the officer. The teen was not arrested. Nowhere in the article does it say he was arrested. He was detained, transported against his will to the police station and released to his mother with a citation. Also, it is not against the law to utter profanity near an officer, not even if it is directed at him. So that part of things is irrelevant; not sure why you’d bring it up except as a blatant attempt to provoke visceral outrage in readers. So you were wrong at least twice, more likely three times in your brief post. Now, let’s try this question: do you think the level of force used by the police was appropriate for the teen’s alleged offense? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6337 "2015-09-17T21:44:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The takedown occurs at 1:16 in the video. In that case, he _definitely_ wasn’t “taken down” for jaywalking; he was taken down for resisting arrest. > [@](#): > > Nowhere in the article does it say he was arrested. He was detained, transported against his will to the police station What do you think the word “arrest” means? > [@](#): > > Also, it is not against the law to utter profanity near an officer It is illegal to disobey a lawful order from a police officer. Assault is also illegal, which, in CA where this occurred, can extend to utterances of profanity. > [@](#): > > So you were wrong at least twice, more likely three times in your brief post. Yes, you were. > [@](#): > > Do you think the level of force used by the police was appropriate for the teen’s alleged offense? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6338 "2015-09-17T21:46:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They should resolve conflicts with what? Harsh language? Stern finger-wagging? Freestyle rap battles? How about talking like a reasonable adult? How about not escalating low priority encounters into physical conflicts without due cause? How about showing some judgment about what is a high priority infraction that must be enforced, and what is only worth a warning. Maybe if they learned how to resolve conflicts without violence, everybody would be better off. But when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. And that’s why cops end up with a bullet behind the ear. Sometimes they are their own worst enemy. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6339 "2015-09-17T21:46:52Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > After all, everyone knows that the penalty for trespassing is to be eaten alive. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Do you trespass often? > [@Muffin](#): > > You really are unhinged for thinking that whether or not I trespass is relevant to whether or not trespassers should be eaten alive. I wanted to know your possible qualification for coming up with such a bizarre statement as, “Everyone knows that the penalty for trespassing is to be eaten alive”. Do you know that “everyone knows” this? Do you know of a law that allows/suggests/demands trespassers be eaten alive? Have you even met “everyone”? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6340 "2015-09-17T21:48:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How about talking like a reasonable adult? That option went out the window when the kid decided not to behave like a reasonable adult. You can’t reason with someone whose response to a polite request is “Fuck you”. > [@](#): > > How about not escalating low priority encounters into physical conflicts without due cause? Endangering public safety is not a “low priority”. > [@](#): > > How about showing some judgment about what is a high priority infraction that must be enforced, and what is only worth a warning. He _was_ given a warning. He chose to disregard it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=316) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=318)