# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 331
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6601 "2015-10-21T23:04:16Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > That this is even an issue illustrates just how crazy the USA is. > > Where I’m from, you stop to help people, and when you are broken down, people stop to help you. Shoot-first, ask questions later, is not how we think. That’s just because we don’t have FREEDOM. (sarcasm) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6602 "2015-10-22T03:05:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m not the one saying that “upon arriving at a scene, police should pre-emptively shoot everybody just to be safe”. Not explicitly, to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6603 "2015-10-22T13:26:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If I believe I am in danger, then I have the right to negate that threat by whatever means I have at my disposal. I am not obligated to hold back or “fight fair”. The means you use to negate the threat should be appropriate to the quality of the threat presented. It’s not right to shoot a child when the child is threatening you with a fist-fight. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6604 "2015-10-22T13:44:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If I believe I am in danger, then I have the right to negate that threat by whatever means I have at my disposal. You’re in danger every morning when you look in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6605 "2015-10-22T13:58:38Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The means you use to negate the threat should be appropriate to the quality of the threat presented. > It’s not right to shoot a child when the child is threatening you with a fist-fight. I actually had this happen to me. Me? I laughed with my friends and kept on walking. But, according to **Smapti** , maybe the kid had a hidden gun (or a toy gun that looked real), so I guess I should have killed him–just to be sure and safe. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6606 "2015-10-22T13:59:41Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > It’s not right to shoot a child when the child is threatening you with a fist-fight. The child shouldn’t have brought his fists to a gunfight. That’s Evolution 101. Besides, why are you assuming the child _doesn’t_ have a gun of his own? He might. Therefore, for Smapti’s own safety, he should preemptively shoot the child, just to be sure. Suggesting otherwise means you don’t believe in Smapti’s right to defend himself, and are therefore worse than Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6607 "2015-10-22T17:38:32Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The means you use to negate the threat should be appropriate to the quality of the threat presented. > It’s not right to shoot a child when the child is threatening you with a fist-fight. Threatening you with a fist-fight is not the same threat-level as someone who is actually beating you. Or when the thug is playing the “knock out” game. \*Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife. - Oliver Wendell Holmes\* ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6608 "2015-10-22T17:40:08Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > You’re in danger every morning when you look in the mirror. Have you been hiding in **Sampti** ’s shower while he shaves? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6609 "2015-10-22T19:23:38Z")
[For the record, we can now confirm that Corey Jones was armed when he was shot.](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/corey-jones-death-black-drummer-was-shot-3-times-never-fired-his-gun-attorneys-say/) I’m sure you’ll all be retracting your hyperbolic strawmen now. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6610 "2015-10-22T19:35:56Z")
But obviously never fired it. But hey, gun found in vicinity, obviously YOU think the man deserved to die. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6611 "2015-10-22T22:01:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But obviously never fired it. > > But hey, gun found in vicinity, obviously YOU think the man deserved to die. Don’t mischaracterize Smapti’s position. The POTENTIAL of a gun in the vicinity is what makes it a good shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6612 "2015-10-22T22:02:42Z")
Can’t wait until the NRA gets involved. “Plainclothes Officer Sneaks Up and Guns Down Man For Exercising His 2nd Amendment” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6613 "2015-10-22T22:29:50Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But obviously never fired it. > > But hey, gun found in vicinity, obviously YOU think the man deserved to die. Is there a law that states someone like Corey Jones is allowed to shoot first? "_If Corey had his gun out, he never made any kind of offensive action," said Daryl Parks, an attorney for the Jones family_. (Says someone who wasn’t there.) \*Jones, 31, was shot to death early Sunday by Palm Beach Gardens Officer Nouman Raja, who stopped his unmarked van to check on what he thought was an abandoned vehicle and was “suddenly confronted by an armed subject,” police chief Stephen Stepp has said. Details of exactly what happened next have not been released by police. …Jones’ brother Clinton Jones Jr. said his brother would “not ever, ever, ever pull a gun on a policeman. Never.\*” (Says someone else who wasn’t there.) \*“ **All lives matter. This is not a black thing," he said before introducing his wife, who is white. "We don’t see color. … No disrespect to ‘black lives matter,’ all lives matter.** ” …Jones was running away at some point, but there’s no evidence he was shot in the back, Crump said. His body was found 80 to 100 feet from his car\*. > **[Attorneys: Fla. musician shot 3 times by cop, never fired his gun](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/corey-jones-death-black-drummer-was-shot-3-times-never-fired-his-gun-attorneys-say/)** > > Corey Jones was shot to death by plainclothes police officer near his broken down vehicle on Interstate 95 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6614 "2015-10-22T23:32:57Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Can’t wait until the NRA gets involved. “Plainclothes Officer Sneaks Up and Guns Down Man For Exercising His 2nd Amendment” Sorry, Black Man. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6615 "2015-10-22T23:47:51Z")
The Onion, once again, stays a half-step ahead of reality. An article last week: “Police Pleasantly Surprised To Learn Man They Shot Was Armed” > **[Police Pleasantly Surprised To Learn Man They Shot Was Armed](https://www.theonion.com/police-pleasantly-surprised-to-learn-man-they-shot-was-1819577046)** > > LEXINGTON, KY—Following a pedestrian stop Monday night during which they fired their weapons on a suspicious individual, patrol officers for the Fayette County Police Department were pleasantly surprised to discover the man they shot was armed,... ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6616 "2015-10-24T03:25:25Z")
[Ex-cop gets year in jail for asking to lick woman’s feet](http://abc13.com/news/ex-officer-who-said-he-had-foot-fetish-sentenced-for-official-oppression/1046762/) Well at least no one died. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6617 "2015-10-24T14:26:30Z")
> [@](#): > > A former Cy Fair ISD police officer who said he had a foot fetish has been sentenced for what happened after he pulled a woman over last year. . . . The woman told investigators that she took her boots and socks off, but that Quinn then asked her to give him her underwear. The woman said she tried to comply, but [the Quinn](http://abc13.com/news/ex-officer-who-said-he-had-foot-fetish-sentenced-for-official-oppression/1046762/) didn’t take them and said she was free to go. How the\* mighty\* have fallen. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6618 "2015-10-24T15:29:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [For the record, we can now confirm that Corey Jones was armed when he was shot.](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/corey-jones-death-black-drummer-was-shot-3-times-never-fired-his-gun-attorneys-say/) > > I’m sure you’ll all be retracting your hyperbolic strawmen now. He should have fired first! Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad cop with a gun. Shit, if I was broken down on the side of the road in the middle of the night and a bad part of town and some cracker drove up and I was a black man in the south no less, I would have had my gun ready. And if said cracker (on seeing my gun) pulled out his own gun (cause all crackers in the south have guns) you better believe I would have shot first. Cause this is Murica Damn it! Actually, with the paucity of information we have on this event, I believe it is more appropriate to talk about it in the stupid gun news of the day thread as we don’t know how controversial it really was. All we know is another black citizen of this country is dead at the hands of a police officer. We don’t know if the black citizen was a criminal or a danger to his fellow citizens (though \*\*Smapti \*\*will argue that the judgment of his executioner is enough to show he was a criminal, right **Smapti**? Just like that poor kid, I mean criminal, in Ohio.), just that he is now dead. Over a thousand people every year die at the hands of police, so it is not all that rare of an event… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6619 "2015-10-24T15:41:18Z")
I’m not saying Jones was a criminal. I’m saying that this case, like so many others, doesn’t fall into the “White cop shoots harmless unarmed black man because **RACISM** ” narrative that the anti-law crowd has been trying to push for the last year. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6620 "2015-10-24T16:39:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m not saying Jones was a criminal. I’m saying that this case, like so many others, doesn’t fall into the “White cop shoots harmless unarmed black man because **RACISM** ” narrative that the anti-law crowd has been trying to push for the last year. You’re sure, but others aren’t. Considering your incredible bias towards authority, I’m not at all convinced by your certainty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=330) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=332)