# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 334
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6661 "2015-10-27T21:30:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You have a very loose definition of public servant. He could have very easily killed the girl had her head hit the floor when he violently assaulted her. That’s a risk she assumed when she chose to be forcefully restrained. She was given plenty of opportunities to resolve things without violence and she turned them all down. > [@](#): > > You don’t want Carson for an expert witness, he’d have the jury asleep before finishing his first sentence. Bill Frist showed his medical incompetence in the Terry Schaivo case. Coburn’s a warmongering stooge who never saw a war he didn’t like. Scumbuckets, all three. That’s the company you keep when you claim the power of telediagnosis. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6662 "2015-10-27T21:30:49Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Third video she takes a swing at him. She doesn’t connect, it appears to be more like just flailing with her hand once it gets free. Looking carefully at the third video, it appears that the officer had his left hand under her left leg after the initial contact, and at least assisted in turning it backwards, if not doing it mostly or completely by himself. It appears to me that she is struggling against him in any way she can rather than intentionally tipping her chair backwards onto the ground. This officer is in a difficult position, having been called in to remove the girl from the class, when she is not a small person and she is in a school desk/seat from which it is difficult to remove her. At the beginning of the third video he appears to have both hands on her left hand, which presumably contains the phone, so if he could have been satisfied with removing the phone he should have been able to do that. Instead, he moves his right hand around to her right side in the apparent attempt to wedge her out of the seat, and it is against this move that she struggles so strongly. So much in this situation depends on exactly what the officer was told to do, and how much leeway he might have had to handle it in a manner differently than what he did. If he was told to remove her from the classroom, it’s not clear how else he could have behaved other than not do anything\*. There has been a lot said online about how this officer has a history with black students, but I don’t see the relevance of that. With or without such a history, the incident has to stand on its own. In short, the videos on their own do not tell enough of the story, and the fate of the officer (and the student) should wait for a fair investigation, if such a thing is possible. \*It does appear that he uses unnecessary force at the end, when he drags her free from the chair and throws her along the floor a couple of feel before getting her in the handcuffs. I wish more of that part of the incident were visible in the videos. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6663 "2015-10-27T22:05:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s a risk she assumed when she chose to be forcefully restrained. Shem was given plenty of opportunities to resolve things without violence and she turned them all down. Do we know the girl’s age? Can a minor assume that risk, legally, or are you talking out your ass? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6664 "2015-10-27T22:18:43Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Do we know the girl’s age? Is there a certain age below which people are immune to arrest? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6665 "2015-10-27T22:25:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Is there a certain age below which people are immune to arrest? Depending on the state, there are ages where assumption of risk might be a problem. IANALawyer, neither are you, I’d be interested in hearing from one. You, sir, used “that’s a risk she assumed” and I’m wondering if a minor _can_ assume that risk. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6666 "2015-10-27T22:32:29Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > You, sir, used “that’s a risk she assumed” and I’m wondering if a minor _can_ assume that risk. And she quite obviously _did_ assume that risk. Whether she was legally empowered to do so by the state is irrelevant to the facts of the situation - she refused the peaceful option and left the officer no option but to restrain her with force. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6667 "2015-10-27T22:37:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And she quite obviously _did_ assume that risk. Whether she was legally empowered to do so by the state is irrelevant to the facts of the situation - she refused the peaceful option and left the officer no option but to restrain her with force. Why can’t a Pennsylvania ten year old sign a waiver and assume the risk involved with bungee jumping then? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6668 "2015-10-27T22:39:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And she quite obviously _did_ assume that risk. Whether she was legally empowered to do so by the state is irrelevant to the facts of the situation - she refused the peaceful option and left the officer no option but to restrain her with force. Well, clearly he could have shot her but he exercised restraint. This is where you’re going right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6669 "2015-10-27T22:58:47Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Why can’t a Pennsylvania ten year old sign a waiver and assume the risk involved with bungee jumping then? So you’re saying that no police officer may use physical force to restrain a minor unless they have signed parental consent. I’m sure that’s going to go over great with the courts, to say nothing of the union. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, clearly he could have shot her but he exercised restraint. This is where you’re going right? No, that would have been excessive. He used the appropriate amount of force necessary to extract her from the classroom. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6670 "2015-10-27T23:19:46Z")
Latest from CNN: > **[Spring Valley High School officer suspended after violent classroom arrest | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/us/south-carolina-school-arrest-video/index.html)** > > A student slammed to the ground by a South Carolina school resource officer “bears some responsibility,” Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said Tuesday. > [@](#): > > (CNN)[Breaking news, posted at 5:55 p.m. ET] > > Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott told reporters Tuesday that the student seen arrested in a South Carolina classroom “bears some responsibility.” Her violent arrest was captured in a video that went viral. > > “If she had not disrupted the school and disrupted that class, we would not be standing here today. So it started with her and it ended with my officer. What I’m going to deal with is what my deputy did,” he said. > > The sheriff spoke about the existence of another video that purportedly shows the student resisting. > > “It showed the officer as he puts his hands on her, her punching him,” Lott told CNN, adding that the student’s behavior doesn’t justify what happened after. > > “Just because she was wrong in what she was doing doesn’t make what he was doing completely right also,” the sheriff said. > > The school resource officer involved in the incident, Deputy Ben Fields, has been suspended without pay. Lott expects to make a decision within the next 24 hours about Fields’ continued employment. ---
**Author:** ![canned\_mayhem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@canned\_mayhem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canned_mayhem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6671 "2015-10-27T23:27:01Z")
Ask Tell Make That officer followed those steps perfectly. He may have been a little rougher than needed on that third step but he damn sure accomplished it. That cop wasn’t requested to have a heart to heart with that student. He was called to remove her from the room. You want hugs and kisses then you call a guidance counselor. You want someone removed from your class NOW you call the police. She was removed…/the end ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6672 "2015-10-27T23:53:16Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > That cop wasn’t requested to have a heart to heart with that student. He was called to remove her from the room. Why is that a law enforcement situation? Is he a cop, or a bouncer? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6673 "2015-10-27T23:53:38Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > Ask > Tell > Make Get The Fuck Over Yourself Tough Guy ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6674 "2015-10-27T23:55:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re saying that no police officer may use physical force to restrain a minor unless they have signed parental consent. > > I’m sure that’s going to go over great with the courts, to say nothing of the union. Nope, I’m saying that you may have worded your statement incorrectly re: assumption of risk. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6675 "2015-10-28T00:03:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Get > The > Fuck > Over > Yourself > Tough > Guy The perfect message for anyone who’s ever thought they didn’t have to listen to a cop. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6676 "2015-10-28T00:11:38Z")
I just heard a student state that the officer is known as “Officer Slam” around the school. That doesn’t sound good. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6677 "2015-10-28T00:12:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why is that a law enforcement situation? Is he a cop, or a bouncer? Looks like a bouncer here. It used to be that schools just went and got the football coach to deal with it (or any other big male on staff), nowadays some schools have a cop on site for problems. The teacher tried, the Principal tried, so they called in the cop it sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6678 "2015-10-28T00:19:35Z")
[Female student says she was arrested for videoing the incident.](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/sc-student-arrested-for-recording-school-cops-violent-assault-on-classmate-sitting-in-her-desk/) [Another student says the girl was kicked out of class for chewing gum](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/10/26/student-speaks-out-about-vicious-assault-on-classmate-says-it-was-because-she-was-chewing-gum-video/) No idea how accurate these stories are. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6679 "2015-10-28T00:23:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The perfect message for anyone who’s ever thought they didn’t have to listen to a cop. The guy’s own boss has said there was no justification for his actions. He’s been suspended without pay and may be fired. Once again, the job is not to escalate all situations. It is to de-escalate and diffuse the majority of situations he faces. No one (other than monsters like you) wants a tough guy cop fighting and injuring students over crap like this. It isn’t only incredibly inappropriate and unnecessary, but it is a huge font of pissed away tax money in trying to defend the school, pay medical bills and settlements, and pay higher liability insurance. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6680 "2015-10-28T00:38:08Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The guy’s own boss has said there was no justification for his actions. He’s been suspended without pay and may be fired. > > Once again, the job is not to escalate all situations. It is to de-escalate and diffuse the majority of situations he faces. No one (other than monsters like you) wants a tough guy cop fighting and injuring students over crap like this. It isn’t only incredibly inappropriate and unnecessary, but it is a huge font of pissed away tax money in trying to defend the school, pay medical bills and settlements, and pay higher liability insurance. Ya know, I’m no law enforcement training guy, but you’d think they’d get some direction on this–de-escalation a situation, rather than acting out their tough guy validation fantasies. I think most officers would have handled this more adroitly. What **Smapti** and others don’t seem to recognize is that there is a small percentage of bullies in blue–and I’m willing to bet they’re the majority of the stars in these videos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=333) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=335)