# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 335
**Author:** ![canned\_mayhem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@canned\_mayhem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canned_mayhem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6681 "2015-10-28T01:54:20Z")
I’m amazed she doesn’t already have a gofundme account loaded up, an invitation to the White House and a full ride to Harvard by now. Apparently she hasn’t gotten the blueprint on how to ride the liberal tears into stardom quite yet…I’m sure an accomplished attorney will set her straight any hour now though. Eh, she still left the classroom though…lol ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6682 "2015-10-28T04:18:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He used the appropriate amount of force necessary to extract her from the classroom. She looks like she weighs about 70 pounds, and he looks like he weighs well over 200. Did he really need to mop the floor with her? If he’s as tough as he seems to think he is, he could have just picked her up, desk and all, and carried her out of the room, without even touching her. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6683 "2015-10-28T05:49:54Z")
Seriously. Honestly. If the girl in the video were white, there would not be nearly as much analysis into her actions as there is with the way things actually happened. You can deny it, I suppose, but you’ll look pretty silly doing so, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6684 "2015-10-28T06:09:56Z")
More from South Carolina: [South Carolina Isn’t Charging the Cop Who Shot an Unarmed White Teenager at a Burger Joint > [@](#): > > Zachary Hammond’s first date with Toni Morton involved weed, ice cream, and gunfire. On July 26, at around 8:20 PM, he pulled into a Hardee’s parking lot in Seneca, South Carolina, where an undercover officer had allegedly arranged to buy ten grams of drugs from his companion. As an officer named Mark Tiller converged on the pair, Hammond hit the gas. The 19-year-old was was shot dead as his drug-dealing date snacked on a frozen treat. > > \ > > Details of the shooting were obviously disturbing when the news first broke, and not just because it was over a stupidly small amount of pot. Although police originally said Tiller shot Hammond because he was driving toward him, a second, private autopsy conducted by the family contradicts that claim, according to the Post and Courier, a local newspaper. That assessment found wounds in the teen’s back and shoulder, which suggests he was actually driving away from the cop when he died. The just-released video seems to confirm the family’s version of events. ]([http://www.vice.com/read/south-carolina-isnt-charging-the-cop-who-shot-an-unarmed-white-teenager-at-a-burger-joint-1027](http://www.vice.com/read/south-carolina-isnt-charging-the-cop-who-shot-an-unarmed-white-teenager-at-a-burger-joint-1027))From his family’s civil suit: > [@](#): > > “I’ll blow your F#&&\*#@ head off,” were the last words heard by Zachary Hammond as Lt. Mark Tiller of the Seneca Police Department yelled into the open driver’s side window of Zachary’s 2002 Silver Honda Civic in the parking lot of a Hardee’s restaurant on July 26, 2015. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6685 "2015-10-28T10:42:10Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > If he’s as tough as he seems to think he is, he could have just picked her up, desk and all, and carried her out of the room, without even touching her. While she was punching him in the face? The objective here isn’t for the officer to prove his “toughness”, it’s to get the job done. > [@Chimera](#): > > The guy’s own boss has said there was no justification for his actions. He’s been suspended without pay and may be fired. The guy’s own boss is a _politician_ trying to defuse a bad PR situation being stirred up by people with an emotional, non-fact-based response to the events that occurred. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6686 "2015-10-28T11:43:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > While she was punching him in the face? She wasn’t punching, she flailed her open hand once, probably because she was being thrown off balance. The loose cannon cop risked serious injury to the girl by flipping her deck back so violently. She could have easily gotten a concussion or had been killed. He could have simply towed the desk out in the hall with her in it or firmly but gently pulled her out of the chair. There was no need to jerk on her suddenly with all his might. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6687 "2015-10-28T11:47:12Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > She wasn’t punching, she flailed her open hand once, probably because she was being thrown off balance. She assaulted an officer. > [@](#): > > She could have easily gotten a concussion or had been killed. And it would have been her own fault for turning down the peaceful option. > [@](#): > > He could have simply towed the desk out in the hall with her in it or firmly but gently pulled her out of the chair. Which he TRIED to do. She responded by punching him and forcing herself back into the chair. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6688 "2015-10-28T12:00:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which he TRIED to do. She responded by punching him and forcing herself back into the chair. What tape did you watch, a CGI-enhanced police version? You’re seeing what nobody else saw. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6689 "2015-10-28T12:14:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The loose cannon cop risked serious injury to the girl by flipping her deck back so violently. She could have easily gotten a concussion or had been killed. Yeah, she was only a few degrees off from landing on her head and breaking her neck. Just incredible to see that some in this thread think she deserved it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6690 "2015-10-28T12:18:53Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You’re seeing what nobody else saw. Says the man who saw proof of clinical psychopathy and evidence that the cop was about to execute the entire classroom. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6691 "2015-10-28T12:37:08Z")
I see that Fox News is outraged that people are judging the cop by a short video clip, without seeing the entire context. This, from the network that spent six months playing the clip of Obama saying “You didn’t build it,” without showing the previous five seconds that made it clear he was talking about public infrastructure, rather than a private company. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6692 "2015-10-28T12:44:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Says the man who saw proof of clinical psychopathy and evidence that the cop was about to execute the entire classroom. There’s much more evidence of that than that she was punching him. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6693 "2015-10-28T12:50:21Z")
She obviously attacked him with her deadly weapon desk by pulling him to the ground on top of it! She should have been shot for making him think he might be in danger! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6694 "2015-10-28T14:02:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I assume you made all that up since it doesn’t comport with the eyewitness description I quoted above. Apparently you’ve missed the updated stories. This morning, CNN’s Carol “Isn’t my whiney-style of reading the teleprompter really cute” Costello’s guests again mentioned the basic story with some additional facts. The phone asshole is 16yrs old. The phone asshole refused to stop disrupting the class and hand over her phone when the math teacher requested that she do so. The Assistant Principal was present (in the room) and was also ignored. (That phone call must have been very, very important :rolleyes: ) At that point, they requested the Deputy come to the classroom and deal with the situation. The phone asshole chose to ignored the deputy’s requests also. It’s now apparent that phone assholes and clock inventors run the school systems. Teachers no longer have any authority over the students. Vice/Assistant Principals have no authority. Principals have no authority. Safety officers have no authority. Phone asshole will receive a million dollar payout from the lawsuit. _What did we learn today, class? Fuck with/disrupt the system and make more money than you ever could, if you could get a good paying job? That is correct. San Dimas High School football rules!!!_ Since phone assholes can no longer be removed from a classroom, the other option is to remove all of the other students from the classroom. Escort the good students to another area/classroom and resume teaching. Leave the phone asshole in the old classroom with the option staying there, or leave school property. Certainly makes a school voucher system and private schools sound like a much more positive experience. And no phone assholes disrupting classes. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6695 "2015-10-28T14:27:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Apparently you’ve missed the updated stories. This morning, CNN’s Carol “Isn’t my whiney-style of reading the teleprompter really cute” Costello’s guests again mentioned the basic story with some additional facts. The phone asshole is 16yrs old. The phone asshole refused to stop disrupting the class and hand over her phone when the math teacher requested that she do so. The Assistant Principal was present (in the room) and was also ignored. (That phone call must have been very, very important :rolleyes: ) At that point, they requested the Deputy come to the classroom and deal with the situation. The phone asshole chose to ignored the deputy’s requests also. > > It’s now apparent that phone assholes and clock inventors run the school systems. Teachers no longer have any authority over the students. Vice/Assistant Principals have no authority. Principals have no authority. Safety officers have no authority. Phone asshole will receive a million dollar payout from the lawsuit. _What did we learn today, class? Fuck with/disrupt the system and make more money than you ever could, if you could get a good paying job? That is correct. San Dimas High School football rules!!!_ > > Since phone assholes can no longer be removed from a classroom, the other option is to remove all of the other students from the classroom. Escort the good students to another area/classroom and resume teaching. Leave the phone asshole in the old classroom with the option staying there, or leave school property. > > Certainly makes a school voucher system and private schools sound like a much more positive experience. And no phone assholes disrupting classes. So it’s not OK to watch a big man mop the floor with a little girl and think that he’s using excessive force, but it IS OK to watch the same clip and know for a fact that the girl is an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6696 "2015-10-28T14:38:13Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > So it’s not OK to watch a big man mop the floor with a little girl and think that he’s using excessive force, but it IS OK to watch the same clip and know for a fact that the girl is an asshole. You can watch anything you wish to watch. Did anything occur in the classroom before the start of your favorite video? If something had occurred, do you believe it’s OK for the public to discuss what had happened, or do you feel that a public discussion of the entire incident would just hurt your feelings? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6697 "2015-10-28T14:38:42Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > So it’s not OK to watch a big man mop the floor with a little girl and think that he’s using excessive force, but it IS OK to watch the same clip and know for a fact that the girl is an asshole. I think it’s likely that both are correct. The phone girl was in the wrong for not stopping her call, but there were non-violent ways to remove her from class. For one thing, why send only one cop? Two could have each grasped a forearm and lifted her safely out of the desk, cuffed her, and walked her out. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6698 "2015-10-28T14:40:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The guy’s own boss is a _politician_ trying to defuse a bad PR situation being stirred up by people with an emotional, non-fact-based response to the events that occurred. Always some excuse for why people are wrong to not want to kill each other over the most minor slights, eh Smapti? Never any kind of admission that perhaps you’re wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6699 "2015-10-28T14:47:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think it’s likely that both are correct. The phone girl was in the wrong for not stopping her call, but there were non-violent ways to remove her from class. For one thing, why send only one cop? Two could have each grasped a forearm and lifted her safely out of the desk, cuffed her, and walked her out. That is still physical force and violence if she struggles (like she did when one cop tried to remove her from her seat). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6700 "2015-10-28T14:54:45Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Apparently you’ve missed the updated stories. This morning, CNN’s Carol “Isn’t my whiney-style of reading the teleprompter really cute” Costello’s guests again mentioned the basic story with some additional facts. The phone asshole is 16yrs old. The phone asshole refused to stop disrupting the class and hand over her phone when the math teacher requested that she do so. The Assistant Principal was present (in the room) and was also ignored. (That phone call must have been very, very important :rolleyes: ) At that point, they requested the Deputy come to the classroom and deal with the situation. The phone asshole chose to ignored the deputy’s requests also. > > It’s now apparent that phone assholes and clock inventors run the school systems. Teachers no longer have any authority over the students. Vice/Assistant Principals have no authority. Principals have no authority. Safety officers have no authority. Phone asshole will receive a million dollar payout from the lawsuit. _What did we learn today, class? Fuck with/disrupt the system and make more money than you ever could, if you could get a good paying job? That is correct. San Dimas High School football rules!!!_ > > Since phone assholes can no longer be removed from a classroom, the other option is to remove all of the other students from the classroom. Escort the good students to another area/classroom and resume teaching. Leave the phone asshole in the old classroom with the option staying there, or leave school property. > > Certainly makes a school voucher system and private schools sound like a much more positive experience. And no phone assholes disrupting classes. You start out well, doorhinge, but then become…unhinged. Look _ **nobody** ,_ even crazy Boblib, is saying that the girl should not have been removed from the classroom, that she should not have been disclipined or probably suspended for her actions. Happens every day/week in most high schools in America, because teenages will be assholes (it’s in the job description). _ **Everybody** _ I see on this thread agrees with this. What is in dispute is the level of force employed and if it was proper. Most people here do not think it was, that it escalated a situation that was at best a PITA teen bucking for 2-days in-school suspension to a major incident that could imperil the officer’s job and cause costs to the school. Don’t you think it could have been handled just a _little_ bit better? As for Smapti, he is a pretty good guy elsewhere on the SDMB, but is a pure manicheist when it comes to this issue, so I don’t debate brick walls. Unhinged doors might possible get re-attached to reality… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=334) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=336)