# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 339
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6761 "2015-10-29T02:12:17Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > > > Sounds like the kid was recently orphaned, and is living in foster care. > > > > [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-s-teen-assaulted-deputy-orphan-article-1.2414901?cid=bitly](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-s-teen-assaulted-deputy-orphan-article-1.2414901?cid=bitly) > > Even her own parents don’t want anything to do with her. > > Shocked I tell you… > > The payday that she gets out of this will last a whole month before she’s right back on track for a life of food stamps and probation violation hearings… > [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > Funny how everyone in this thread thinks she’s a special angel yet no one’s lining up to adopt her ass lol… That is truly ugly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6762 "2015-10-29T02:19:04Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > That is truly ugly. There’s an artificiality to the ugliness, like a too-eager Halloween costume. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6763 "2015-10-29T02:27:10Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, the officer was fired, now the only question remaining is whether or not the dumb bitch learned she doesn’t have the right to interrupt those who are actually trying to get an education. She didn’t deserve that treatment, but she certainly doesn’t deserve a public education if she can’t, at the very least, not disrupt those who want to learn The girl did deserve that treatment. She worked hard to get it. The officer used reasonable force to make her comply with his instructions and now he has been nailed up on the cross of political correctness. I sincerely hope he sues the sheriff for firing him. It was unjustified and I think he will win the suit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6764 "2015-10-29T02:36:54Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The girl did deserve that treatment. She worked hard to get it. The officer used reasonable force to make her comply with his instructions and now he has been nailed up on the cross of political correctness. > > I sincerely hope he sues the sheriff for firing him. It was unjustified and I think he will win the suit. How much do you want to bet? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6765 "2015-10-29T07:01:37Z")
I read a post online written by someone who says (s)he works at a non-restraint psychiatric facility that makes an interesting point: if they can do their job of dealing with strong young people with full blown mental illness that can make them psychotically violent without the use of force, why can’t cops? (Obviously this applies mostly to incidents where the resistant party was unarmed here.) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6766 "2015-10-29T11:34:37Z")
Well, the cops can’t forcibly inject Haldol (or other knock-out cocktails), so there’s that… ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6767 "2015-10-29T11:38:12Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Sounds like the kid was recently orphaned, and is living in foster care. > > [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-s-teen-assaulted-deputy-orphan-article-1.2414901?cid=bitly](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-s-teen-assaulted-deputy-orphan-article-1.2414901?cid=bitly) > [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > Even her own parents don’t want anything to do with her. > > Shocked I tell you… > > The payday that she gets out of this will last a whole month before she’s right back on track for a life of food stamps and probation violation hearings… From this point forward, when trying to figure out _which_ racist scumbag you are, someone will link to this and it will all become crystal clear. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6768 "2015-10-29T13:15:14Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Officer Tough Guy has been fired. > [http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/28/us/south-carolina-school-arrest-videos/](http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/28/us/south-carolina-school-arrest-videos/) The article says there is a video which shows that he was acting in self-defence: > [@](#): > > The sheriff said one of the videos shows the girl attacking the officer before the arrest. If that’s true, the wrongful dismissal suit will be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6769 "2015-10-29T14:53:40Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The girl did deserve that treatment. She worked hard to get it. The officer used reasonable force to make her comply with his instructions and now he has been nailed up on the cross of political correctness. > > I sincerely hope he sues the sheriff for firing him. It was unjustified and I think he will win the suit. No, the proper way to handle that situation was to empty the classroom, leave her there until backup arrived. Then pick her and her desk up and take her to a room at the police station and call those responsible for her. Thereafter inform her that she’s no longer welcome back on the school grounds and refer her to psychological counseling. Had the officer done that, there would have been another citation for “cop of the year” (or whatever) in his future. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6770 "2015-10-29T15:05:10Z")
This person is a high school student. In other words, a child. A child approaching adulthood, but a child nonetheless. And children are characterized by (among other things) an incompletely developed sense of right and wrong, a less than complete ability to make mature evaluations, and an occasional inability to restrain themselves despite knowledge of consequences. Society recognizes those developmental levels as realities. That’s why we as a society do not allow children to drink alcohol or to vote, and in many jurisdictions at her age would restrict driving privileges. We also do not hold children to the same standards of punishment as we do adults, except in the most extreme and outrageous cases. Juvenile criminals don’t normally serve custodial sentences in adult prisons, for example. Further, corporal punishment of children by school officials has lost much of its former favor. Even if this school system still practices paddling, I’d be quite surprised if it practices “flip them out of their desk backwards then sling them across the floor” as a routine punishment for even the worst of transgressions. Yes, the child made a bad decision, creating a disturbance and defying authority. But the assertion that she needed to be taken down like a violent felon and physically abused honestly frightens me. She defied authority while seated at her desk, not running around the room swinging a club, or otherwise endangering classmates or teachers. The idea that she somehow deserved the abuse, and that this level of response is anything like proportional to her “disruption” borders on sociopathic. Characterizing the cop’s actions as “self defense” is disingenuous at best; she was seated at her desk when _he attacked her_. To further suggest that this single incident is somehow a marker for her previous life and a signpost for her future path into anti-social depravity is beyond the pale. This is a child who acted out in class. No more, no less. It doesn’t mean that her actions should be acceptable. There’s no slippery slope here, teachers and school officials certainly need order and an ability to maintain it. But this child was disrupting the class about as much as is seen in most classrooms, by many individual teachers, on uncounted occasions. Kids mouth off, get out of line, cut up and act out. They’re kids, that’s normal. And it is also normal for teachers to impose discipline, get them in line, hand out detentions or recommend suspensions, all in a day’s work. What is _not_ in a normal day’s work is the physical abuse and dangerous manhandling of a child who made a stupid choice. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6771 "2015-10-29T15:22:09Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > This person is a high school student. In other words, a child. A child approaching adulthood, but a child nonetheless. And children are characterized by (among other things) an incompletely developed sense of right and wrong, a less than complete ability to make mature evaluations, and an occasional inability to restrain themselves despite knowledge of consequences. Society recognizes those developmental levels as realities. That’s why we as a society do not allow children to drink alcohol or to vote, and in many jurisdictions at her age would restrict driving privileges. We also do not hold children to the same standards of punishment as we do adults, except in the most extreme and outrageous cases. Juvenile criminals don’t normally serve custodial sentences in adult prisons, for example. Further, corporal punishment of children by school officials has lost much of its former favor. Even if this school system still practices paddling, I’d be quite surprised if it practices “flip them out of their desk backwards then sling them across the floor” as a routine punishment for even the worst of transgressions. > > Yes, the child made a bad decision, creating a disturbance and defying authority. But the assertion that she needed to be taken down like a violent felon and physically abused honestly frightens me. She defied authority while seated at her desk, not running around the room swinging a club, or otherwise endangering classmates or teachers. The idea that she somehow deserved the abuse, and that this level of response is anything like proportional to her “disruption” borders on sociopathic. Characterizing the cop’s actions as “self defense” is disingenuous at best; she was seated at her desk when _he attacked her_. To further suggest that this single incident is somehow a marker for her previous life and a signpost for her future path into anti-social depravity is beyond the pale. > > This is a child who acted out in class. No more, no less. It doesn’t mean that her actions should be acceptable. There’s no slippery slope here, teachers and school officials certainly need order and an ability to maintain it. But this child was disrupting the class about as much as is seen in most classrooms, by many individual teachers, on uncounted occasions. Kids mouth off, get out of line, cut up and act out. They’re kids, that’s normal. And it is also normal for teachers to impose discipline, get them in line, hand out detentions or recommend suspensions, all in a day’s work. > > What is _not_ in a normal day’s work is the physical abuse and dangerous manhandling of a child who made a stupid choice. Quoted because I wish I had written this well and clearly. Concur (albeit I think not all posters will, but It’ll be interesting to see if their rebuttals are as clear and thoughtful). ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6772 "2015-10-29T15:36:53Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Sounds like the kid was recently orphaned, and is living in foster care. > > [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-s-teen-assaulted-deputy-orphan-article-1.2414901?cid=bitly](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-s-teen-assaulted-deputy-orphan-article-1.2414901?cid=bitly) _Todd Rutherford, the Columbia, S.C., attorney representing the assault victim, revealed his client is a recent orphan living in foster care_. Has anyone verified this lawyer’s claim? Is the lawyer telling the truth? The lawyer’s not under oath. Is the father deceased? Is the mother deceased? Is the girl actually 16 yrs old, or could that be a ruse to keep the media from questioning an underage student? So many unanswered questions. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6773 "2015-10-29T15:47:18Z")
yes I agree with Canny Dan as well. Really looks to me like the officer lost his temper, his training and composure. As a sheriff, he might not even have BEEN trained to deal with a simple problem like that. He just did what he would do “normally” do :smack: ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6774 "2015-10-29T15:50:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Has anyone verified this lawyer’s claim? Is the lawyer telling the truth? The lawyer’s not under oath. Is the father deceased? Is the mother deceased? Is the girl actually 16 yrs old, or could that be a ruse to keep the media from questioning an underage student? So many unanswered questions. Yeah, you never run out of things to ask when you’re stupid. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6775 "2015-10-29T16:10:31Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah, you never run out of things to ask when you’re stupid. That’s the stupidest thing you’ve said to date. :smack: Has anyone verified the claim of that lawyer? Maybe you don’t care but other’s might. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6776 "2015-10-29T16:23:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > That’s the stupidest thing you’ve said to date. :smack: > > Has anyone verified the claim of that lawyer? Maybe you don’t care but other’s might. Which “other” are you talking about, and what does his or her “might” have to do with it? Finish your sentences, fercryingoutloud! Don’t tease us by mentioning the might of some unnamed other and then just leave us hanging! Is this some other police officer, or some other student acting out? Or maybe some other lawyer or message board poster? Will they use their might to wreak havoc on the student? The lawyer? Officer Fields? The possibilities are too many, the stakes are too dear; please clarify! \*Need answer soon! \* ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6777 "2015-10-29T16:29:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > _Todd Rutherford, the Columbia, S.C., attorney representing the assault victim, revealed his client is a recent orphan living in foster care_. > > Has anyone verified this lawyer’s claim? Is the lawyer telling the truth? The lawyer’s not under oath. Is the father deceased? Is the mother deceased? Is the girl actually 16 yrs old, or could that be a ruse to keep the media from questioning an underage student? So many unanswered questions. You wanna see her long-form birth certificate and her parent’s death certificate?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6778 "2015-10-29T17:01:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > _Todd Rutherford, the Columbia, S.C., attorney representing the assault victim, revealed his client is a recent orphan living in foster care_. > > Has anyone verified this lawyer’s claim? Is the lawyer telling the truth? The lawyer’s not under oath. Is the father deceased? Is the mother deceased? Is the girl actually 16 yrs old, or could that be a ruse to keep the media from questioning an underage student? So many unanswered questions. Is she in fact a communist spy ? Is she a communist spy sent by ISIS ? Did she or did she not have guerilla training or explosives on her person ? Is all of this a false flag to tekk are gunz ?! We just don’t know ! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6779 "2015-10-29T18:34:31Z")
**doorhinge** has a point here. There is still a lot we do not know. News reports are often incorrect and lawyers on both sides of the aisle lie to the media all the time. Doesn’t mean the report is _wrong_, just means we maybe we shouldn’t treat it as Gospel right off the bat. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6780 "2015-10-29T18:39:00Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Characterizing the cop’s actions as “self defense” is disingenuous at best; she was seated at her desk when _he attacked her_. That statement is so far wrong that it’s not even in the same zip code with correct. He did not attack her in any way, shape, form or fashion. Actually, the video shows quite the opposite - she attacked him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=338) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=340)