# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 340
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6781 "2015-10-29T18:57:08Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > No, the proper way to handle that situation was to empty the classroom, leave her there until backup arrived. Student is disrupting the educational process. Teacher calls SRO to ask him to resolve this. The appropriate resolution is to _disrupt the educational process to an even greater extent_? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6782 "2015-10-29T19:04:04Z")
A kid acting snotty in class is not a law enforcement situation and it’s not a situation that requires violence in any form toward the kid. Even my racist, recheck, gun toting, cop loving, co-worker was nearly sick at this video. I have a hard time believing anyone thinks throwing her across the room was warranted. Ya’ll are just saying that because you don’t actually care, you only want to argue against anyone who dares question the police, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6783 "2015-10-29T19:07:33Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > A kid acting snotty in class is not a law enforcement situation and it’s not a situation that requires violence in any form toward the kid. Tell me how the school resolves this without law enforcement help, without anyone getting sued, and without completely knuckling under and giving Her Majesty exactly what she wants, in such a way that _wouldn’t_ provoke mass outrage from anti-authority reactionaries on the internet. > [@](#): > > I have a hard time believing anyone thinks throwing her across the room was warranted. It’s a good thing that she was never “thrown across the room”, then. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6784 "2015-10-29T19:13:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tell me how the school resolves this without law enforcement help, without anyone getting sued, and without completely knuckling under and giving Her Majesty exactly what she wants, in such a way that _wouldn’t_ provoke mass outrage from anti-authority reactionaries on the internet. Not using wildly disproportionate force. There are plenty of ways this could occur. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6785 "2015-10-29T19:17:52Z")
Speaking as a teacher, it would be less disruptive than having a student assaulted in my class room, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6786 "2015-10-29T19:18:42Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That statement is so far wrong that it’s not even in the same zip code with correct. He did not attack her in any way, shape, form or fashion. Actually, the video shows quite the opposite - she attacked him. You can be forgiven for your ignorance on a great many subjects, but as a martial arts instructor you really have no excuse for this dazzlingly moronic comment. That is, unless you are privy to a video other than the three I have watched. The girl was being obstinate and a pain in the ass, that’s for sure. She did not “attack” the hulking, muscular cop who was attempting to wrench her out of her seat by the neck any more than I would be “attacking” you if I raised my hand to protect myself against one of your (no doubt devastating) flying kicks. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6787 "2015-10-29T19:27:45Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > This person is a high school student. In other words, a child. A child approaching adulthood, but a child nonetheless. And children are characterized by (among other things) an incompletely developed sense of right and wrong, a less than complete ability to make mature evaluations, and an occasional inability to restrain themselves despite knowledge of consequences. Society recognizes those developmental levels as realities. That’s why we as a society do not allow children to drink alcohol or to vote, and in many jurisdictions at her age would restrict driving privileges. We also do not hold children to the same standards of punishment as we do adults, except in the most extreme and outrageous cases. Juvenile criminals don’t normally serve custodial sentences in adult prisons, for example. Further, corporal punishment of children by school officials has lost much of its former favor. Even if this school system still practices paddling, I’d be quite surprised if it practices “flip them out of their desk backwards then sling them across the floor” as a routine punishment for even the worst of transgressions. > > Yes, the child made a bad decision, creating a disturbance and defying authority. But the assertion that she needed to be taken down like a violent felon and physically abused honestly frightens me. She defied authority while seated at her desk, not running around the room swinging a club, or otherwise endangering classmates or teachers. The idea that she somehow deserved the abuse, and that this level of response is anything like proportional to her “disruption” borders on sociopathic. Characterizing the cop’s actions as “self defense” is disingenuous at best; she was seated at her desk when _he attacked her_. To further suggest that this single incident is somehow a marker for her previous life and a signpost for her future path into anti-social depravity is beyond the pale. > > This is a child who acted out in class. No more, no less. It doesn’t mean that her actions should be acceptable. There’s no slippery slope here, teachers and school officials certainly need order and an ability to maintain it. But this child was disrupting the class about as much as is seen in most classrooms, by many individual teachers, on uncounted occasions. Kids mouth off, get out of line, cut up and act out. They’re kids, that’s normal. And it is also normal for teachers to impose discipline, get them in line, hand out detentions or recommend suspensions, all in a day’s work. > > What is _not_ in a normal day’s work is the physical abuse and dangerous manhandling of a child who made a stupid choice. QFT. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6788 "2015-10-29T19:34:14Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That statement is so far wrong that it’s not even in the same zip code with correct. He did not attack her in any way, shape, form or fashion. Actually, the video shows quite the opposite - she attacked him. I am not sure how you see this. The video [is here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa6yp7dmVU4). At 3 seconds, the girl rips her arm away after the sheriff had grabbed it. At 4 seconds the sheriff is behind her and has but an arm around her neck. Immediately thereafter the girl tries to pull his arm off her neck and then it appears she ineffectually swipes at the sheriffs face as he is behind her. At 5 seconds the sheriff flips her in the desk and throws her to the floor. Are you saying the ineffectual swipes that the girl made as the officer had the girl in the head lock were the attack? Don’t you think that the officer putting her in a headlock is more of an attack and is the first real physical part of this altercation? Or do you think that the girl shaking off the restraint on her arm at the 3 second mark constitutes an attack. I think CannyDan’s analysis is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6789 "2015-10-29T19:43:02Z")
I was a high school teacher once upon a time. Sometimes a student would be disruptive in class. Some were physically disruptive, jumping around the room, tossing erasers (yes, we had chalk boards and erasers back then) and such. Some were quietly insolent, slouching down in their chairs, putting their heads down and feigning sleep. Others were mouthy back-talkers. I never found it necessary to physically accost any of them. I regained order by being smarter than the misbehaving children, talking them through the problem, and making it clear that there would be consequences, even if the consequences weren’t immediate. The idea that briefly and strategically “knuckling under” to a child acting out is somehow going to change the power dynamic in the school and end with the most disruptive students running the place is delusional. Adults have the jobs, adults have the titles, and ultimately adults have control. And that was pretty much the usual in my school, a public school with over 3,000 students. The only time I ever saw “the Dean” and perhaps “the football Coach” enter into a physical confrontation with students was to break up actual fistfights. No member of the Staff would even think of laying hands on a student who was still sitting in a desk, no matter what came out of that student’s mouth. The idea that this student, or any student who is “disrespektin’ their ah-thor’-i-tie” must be summarily disciplined, and that this absolutely requires corporal punishment, is fucking stupid. As **Fubaya** said, acting snotty in class isn’t a law enforcement situation. Anyone who insists on treating it as such is an idiot. (Checks forum…) Yes, an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6790 "2015-10-29T20:10:53Z")
Why has no one pointed out that it wasn’t a phone, it was a homemade clock she was speaking into? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6791 "2015-10-29T20:32:45Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Why has no one pointed out that it wasn’t a phone, it was a homemade clock she was speaking into? But it was meant to appear like a _hoax_ phone. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6792 "2015-10-29T20:46:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tell me how the school resolves this without law enforcement help, without anyone getting sued, and without completely knuckling under and giving Her Majesty exactly what she wants, in such a way that _wouldn’t_ provoke mass outrage from anti-authority reactionaries on the internet. You know, I went to school for fourteen years (plus university) and saw all kinds of kids engaged in all kinds of classroom-disrupting behavior, some similar to the sulking manner of this girl and some worse, and not once did a cop have to be summoned, much less to pull a violent takedown. The schools were nonetheless well disciplined, well run, and provided me with an excellent education. So it’s doable, if you’re not an idiot. Perhaps the school board should hire fewer idiots. I could provide them with the names of some of my former teachers. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6793 "2015-10-29T21:15:09Z")
If the girl had been at home, sassing a parent because she was texting at the dinner table, would anyone be in favor of a cop being called in to take her down in a headlock and then dragged across the room? I sincerely hope not. She was being a bratty teenager, not unlike the hundreds of thousands of bratty teens that have populated schools since antiquity. We’re in a bad way as a society if cop-inflicted violence is considered a reasonable response to teenaged orneriness. Next thing you know, cops will be doing this to three year-olds who refuse to put on their jammies. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6794 "2015-10-29T21:39:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If the girl had been at home, sassing a parent because she was texting at the dinner table, would anyone be in favor of a cop being called in to take her down in a headlock and then dragged across the room? I sincerely hope not. I’m sure some of these guys would be in favor of her getting a parental beating. Having been there when I was a kid, I’m going to go with no. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6795 "2015-10-29T22:09:19Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > But it was meant to appear like a _hoax_ phone. And that phone had a timer function. You know what else had a timer function? The mobile telephones used in the [Madrid train bombings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings). Connect the dots people. That brave officer may have saved the lives of dozens, if not hundreds of people, and I for one am not going to listen to you malign his good name. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6796 "2015-10-29T22:23:43Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Which “other” are you talking about, and what does his or her “might” have to do with it? > > Finish your sentences, fercryingoutloud! Don’t tease us by mentioning the might of some unnamed other and then just leave us hanging! Is this some other police officer, or some other student acting out? Or maybe some other lawyer or message board poster? Will they use their might to wreak havoc on the student? The lawyer? Officer Fields? > > The possibilities are too many, the stakes are too dear; please clarify! \*Need answer soon! > \* Hahahaha. One thing at a time. It hasn’t been established that the phone asshole’s lawyer’s claim is true. Just because someone on the internet is willing to repeat an unsubstantiated claim, that doesn’t mean that the claim is true. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6797 "2015-10-29T22:48:06Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’m sure some of these guys would be in favor of her getting a parental beating. Yeah, but I find it hard to believe even these guys would support a parental beating that looked like this one. It’s only because the beating is being done by a cop (against a black “bitch”) that they are defending it. Back in my day, troublemakers were yelled at, assigned detention and then had their parents/guardians summoned. All this resource officer nonsense did not exist, and somehow I survived. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6798 "2015-10-30T00:25:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > He did not attack her in any way, shape, form or fashion. Actually, the video shows quite the opposite - she attacked him. Here’s the video: Please tell me just when she attacked him. It shouldn't take you too long to identify this because from 6 seconds in she's being dragged along the floor. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6799 "2015-10-30T02:46:51Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > [QUOTE=Clothahump] > He did not attack her in any way, shape, form or fashion. Actually, the video shows quite the opposite - she attacked him. Here’s the video: Please tell me just when she attacked him. It shouldn’t take you too long to identify this because from 6 seconds in she’s being dragged along the floor. [/QUOTE] I just skim these threads very briefly, but since the most recent post linked to a Youtube I clicked. Boy, that **Clothahump** really is a moron, hunh? I remember Zeldo excluded Christina Hendricks when he started a _ **Who is the 2nd most voluptuous woman?** _ thread. In a _ **Who is the 2nd most stupid Doper?** _ thread, would it be necessary to name the excludee explicitly? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6800 "2015-10-30T03:23:01Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > He did not attack her in any way, shape, form or fashion. Actually, the video shows quite the opposite - she attacked him. After viewing the three videos, I have to say this goes so far beyond stupid to being actually deranged. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=339) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=341)