# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 341
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6801 "2015-10-30T03:24:02Z")
Obviously she attached him with a chair. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6802 "2015-10-30T04:37:15Z")
Fields will be hired as a cop in an adjoining county, rise to justice of the peace then appointed to the Supreme Court by President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6803 "2015-10-30T06:38:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > After viewing the three videos, I have to say this goes so far beyond stupid to being actually deranged. Clothahump rejects our reality and substitutes his own. That said, there are any number of high school students deserving of a good body-slamming, but actually doing so is counter-productive. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6804 "2015-10-30T11:21:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > After viewing the three videos, I have to say this goes so far beyond stupid to being actually deranged. Greedo shot first ! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6805 "2015-10-30T11:32:17Z")
Kids with developmental disabilities can be just as stubborn and hard-headed as that girl was being–if not even moreso. Are the police defenders saying that knocking such a kid to the ground by the neck and dragging them @ 90 mph would have not only been an appropriate response, but the only the response available? I went to school with badasses. They made that girl look like a saint. At no time did any of the teachers ever have to call in a police officer. If we treat schools like prisons and kids like criminals, guess where they end up when they grow up? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6806 "2015-10-30T14:21:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > After viewing the three videos, I have to say this goes so far beyond stupid to being actually deranged. Phwew! Thanks, I was beginning to doubt myself. Wasn’t this incident precipitated by her having her phone out, and refusing to put it away? Then refusing to surrender it? So now it appears that pretty much the entire class had their phones out too. Clearly, this was an entire roomful of miscreants and budding criminals! Why, I’ll bet that many of them have moved on to even greater anti-social behaviors, like walking against traffic in the hallways! Think of the children! Somebody with authority and bulging muscles needs to wade in and beat the living shit out of all of them! For their own good, of course. There will be no knuckling under on our watch! After all, they asked for it. _There may be some knuckle dragging though…_ ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6807 "2015-10-30T14:28:40Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > So now it appears that pretty much the entire class had their phones out too. Good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6808 "2015-10-30T15:23:24Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Phwew! Thanks, I was beginning to doubt myself. > > Wasn’t this incident precipitated by her having her phone out, and refusing to put it away? Then refusing to surrender it? No, not exactly. You have the first part wrong but the second part right. [If you read the guy I quoted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18808660&postcount=6644), she apparently got a text, took her phone out to look at it and then put her phone away. The teacher saw her do it and asked for her phone. She declined that opportunity to have her phone confiscated, so the teacher saw fit to disrupt the class and berate her. When that didn’t produce his desired result, he called an Admin. When the admin was not able to force compliance, he called the SRO. The rest can be seen on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6809 "2015-10-30T15:42:45Z")
Sounds like a teacher going overboard with his ego and ‘power’. If I was a parent of one of those other children, I’d be asking this teacher why he short changed my child’s education to go off on a power and control trip about one kid looking at her phone for a brief moment. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6810 "2015-10-30T15:56:57Z")
Any parent who had a little conversation with their child about how quickly that cellphone can be turned off for misusing it, using it during class, creating a disturbance with it, etc., would not face this situation. If one of my kids had done any such thing, that cell phone would have been orbiting Mars about now. And that would be regardless of who bought it or paid for the service. I realize this child lived in a foster home, but nonetheless, rules need to come from the home front too. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6811 "2015-10-30T15:59:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, not exactly. You have the first part wrong but the second part right… So, first she brandished it, then she concealed it. She was hiding a _concealed phone!_ Meantime, several other students were _openly carrying_ theirs! Does anyone know if this is an ‘open carry’ school? Regardless, that kind of flaunting of authority cannot go uncorrected! The cop should have shot every one of those kids dead on the spot. _That_ would teach them! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6812 "2015-10-30T16:00:05Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Phwew! Thanks, I was beginning to doubt myself. You doubted yourself on the basis of something that _ **Clothahump** _ said!? I think you may need to boost your self-esteem…😉 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6813 "2015-10-30T16:00:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Sounds like a teacher going overboard with his ego and ‘power’. > > If I was a parent of one of those other children, I’d be asking this teacher why he short changed my child’s education to go off on a power and control trip about one kid looking at her phone for a brief moment. “Brief moment”? The teacher tried to deal with phone asshole and restore order to the classroom. When that failed, the teacher requested the Assistant Principal come to the classroom and deal with phone asshole. When that failed, they requested the safety officer come to the classroom to deal with phone asshole. The safety officer then had a conversation with phone asshole before he enforced compliance. That doesn’t sound like a “brief moment”, to me. YMMV. Apparently, it no longer matters if a teacher, assistant principle, or safety officer wish to restore order to a classroom. To hell with the rest of the students who came to school to learn. Disruptive phone assholes now control the teaching/learning environment. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6814 "2015-10-30T16:14:13Z")
Remember Robert Bates, the Tulsa, Oklahoma volunteer deputy who shot and killed Eric Harris as Harris was being arrested? Prosecutors sought Judge James Caputo’s recusal because he has close business and family ties to several of the people involved. Today the judge recused himself from the case. [Cite](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/f9693ad5129f4497be3576a5986a07dc/judge-recuses-self-tulsa-ex-deputys-manslaughter-case). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6815 "2015-10-30T16:15:55Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “Brief moment”? The teacher tried to deal with phone asshole and restore order to the classroom. When that failed, the teacher requested the Assistant Principal come to the classroom and deal with phone asshole. When that failed, they requested the safety officer come to the classroom to deal with phone asshole. The safety officer then had a conversation with phone asshole before he enforced compliance. > > That doesn’t sound like a “brief moment”, to me. YMMV. > > Apparently, it no longer matters if a teacher, assistant principle, or safety officer wish to restore order to a classroom. To hell with the rest of the students who came to school to learn. Disruptive phone assholes now control the teaching/learning environment. Yes, it was a brief moment. We have eyewitness accounts that say that. You, on the other hand, just have stuff that you make up and baseless ad hominem attacks on the student. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6816 "2015-10-30T16:17:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “Brief moment”? The teacher tried to deal with phone asshole and restore order to the classroom. When that failed, the teacher requested the Assistant Principal come to the classroom and deal with phone asshole. When that failed, they requested the safety officer come to the classroom to deal with phone asshole. The safety officer then had a conversation with phone asshole before he enforced compliance. > > That doesn’t sound like a “brief moment”, to me. YMMV. > > Apparently, it no longer matters if a teacher, assistant principle, or safety officer wish to restore order to a classroom. To hell with the rest of the students who came to school to learn. Disruptive phone assholes now control the teaching/learning environment. There is appropriate force and inappropriate force in this situation. Shooting her would have been inappropriate. Do you agree? If so, then the only disagreement is what level of force is appropriate for this situation. I believe that the level applied was inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6817 "2015-10-30T17:37:31Z")
hold on a second… just got a Munger Iron Prescription…gulp…ugh, that goes down hard…ok, there…there… it’s starting to kick in… Smapti, doorhinge, canned mayhem… Cannedmayhem? CM !? Ouch, that doorknob is going to leave quite a bruise on your ass. There has already been discussion of the excluded middle of doing nothing, and pulling the student from her desk. You really think her flailing amounts to an assault? You don’t see a non-trivial risk of death from hitting her head on the floor? Contrariwise, on his way out cannedmayhem dropped the aphorism “Ask, Tell, Make” (with implicit "Wait"s between each step). This case is kind of silly if we are just arguing for “Ask, Tell, Wait 17 minutes, Make” and “A,T, wait 18, M.” CannyDan, you may have a great track record of defusing situations like this, but I doubt you would go so far as to say the school needs to wait till the student requires nasogastric intubation before using force. Morgenstern suggested emptying the class room. Others have suggested more officers and removing the student in the desk from the room. If we accept what you have said about immature minds not being able to make sensible decisions, who should bear the costs of dealing with that: the spare classrooms to move all the other students to when someone throws a snit, the extra police, the counselors and psychiatrists to come plead with them, the fancy restraints to keep them from harming themselves while they are attached to the desk so that it can be carted out, etc. ? The student had available a very low cost solution: stand up and go the the principal’s office. Why should the parents of the well behaved students be forced to pay for high-cost solutions to problems like this? Does being not completely competent to understand the risks of not backing down absolve you of all responsibility from injury in the subsequent use of force? I think that dragging the student out of the room while seated in her desk is a reasonable compromise between force and delay, but I could understand someone making an argument that she might be more likely to get injured in the desk than out. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6818 "2015-10-30T17:53:33Z")
The entire reason I suggest pulling the back of the chair instead of the front is that it is much easier for the puller, as the sitter has less ability to resist and is less oriented to do so. The best way to resist when your chair/desk is being pulled backwards is to… wait for it… Get out of the chair. Also gives the rest of the class the visual of the child’s face as they’re being hauled backwards out of the room. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6819 "2015-10-30T18:08:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Remember Robert Bates, the Tulsa, Oklahoma volunteer deputy who shot and killed Eric Harris as Harris was being arrested? Prosecutors sought Judge James Caputo’s recusal because he has close business and family ties to several of the people involved. Today the judge recused himself from the case. [Cite](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/f9693ad5129f4497be3576a5986a07dc/judge-recuses-self-tulsa-ex-deputys-manslaughter-case). From the link: > [@](#): > > The Tulsa World reports ([tulsaworld.com | Read Tulsa News, news for Tulsa County, and the metropolitan area of Oklahoma. The latest weather, crime, politics, and more.](http://bit.ly/1C56TSJ) ) that prosecutors requested Judge James Caputo’s recusal because he has had “close business and familial ties” with the sheriff’s office and some witnesses in the case. Why is he on the bench at all, never mind with any case that appears before him, when he has “close business and familial ties” with the sheriff’s office? I wouldn’t trust him with a traffic ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6820 "2015-10-30T18:38:03Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > From the link: > > Why is he on the bench at all, never mind with any case that appears before him, when he has “close business and familial ties” with the sheriff’s office? > > I wouldn’t trust him with a traffic ticket. Past articles on this incident and the people involved indicated regularly that there is a very close-knit group of people who are police, lawyers and judges in the Tulsa area. It has been referred to more than once as a good-old-boy-network. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=340) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=342)