# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 342
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6821 "2015-10-30T19:02:37Z")
**Hooleehootoo** , have you ever been in an actual high school, surrounded by actual high school students? It seems you have not, because otherwise you would know that making poor decisions, acting out, and staging petty rebellions occur, not once in a blue moon, but over and over again, all day, every day. Kids refusing to change their seat, or spit out their gum, or put down the comic book, etc. are _routine_ to the point of boredom for teachers and administrators. It isn’t just my track record, it’s the track record of every school I’ve ever seen. Kids will be kids. It’s up to us to be the adults. The idea that allowing one child to defy authority even temporarily is the beginning of a slippery slope into loss of control and student anarchy requiring the hiring of all sorts of additional staff and equipment is just ridiculous. No school so far has had to add extra classrooms, purchase restraints, or any of the rest of your over-the-top mischaracterizations in response to their students being, and acting like, children. Again, slowly now for emphasis – this is _routine_. Schools are just chock full of – duhh – children, and therefore are staffed by people trained to deal with them. You know, like teachers. Cops just don’t have that kind of training, they’re trained to deal with criminals. So here we have the result of attempting to criminalize childish behavior. As anyone who removes their “cops can do no wrong, respec’ my authorit-aye” blinders can see, criminalizing childish behavior leads to all kinds of unwanted consequences. Like manhandled kids, some of whom could be injured, and cops dismissed from their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6822 "2015-10-30T20:54:45Z")
I have been a substitute teacher of Middle School. It was stressful for me. Perhaps it was also stressful for the students when I reacted differently to behaviors that to other teachers would be considered “routine to the point of boredom”. When I consider what policies I would like to have my children learn under, and that I would be comfortable asking teachers to follow, yes, I think it is wonderful when an experienced teacher can handle discipline without complete disruption of the class. If you were to take many hours to talk down this Spring Valley HS student, I would consider it noble… providing you could do it on your own time, without stopping class for the well-behaving students. That’s a tall order. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6823 "2015-10-30T22:05:31Z")
All this fuss about the right to carry guns for self-protection, when in fact there should be a right for people, including kids in school where they are at risk of attack by violent nutters parading in the guise of authorities, to carry a cell/vid phone to provide evidence that can lead to charges against abusers. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6824 "2015-10-30T22:38:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Clothahump rejects our reality and substitutes his own. No, asshole. I live in the real world, which is why my statement was correct. You liberal twits that live in a utopian dreamworld full of rainbows and unicorn farts are a bunch of sheep. You saw a selectively edited video, guaranteed to make you swell up with oh-so-justified outrage, and HuffPo did it because they knew nobody would bother to question it. They also wrote the descriptions in such a way as to make it appear that it was the big, bad cop beating up on the poor, defenseless widduh teenage girl. When the unedited video and story came out, it was totally different. This was a teenager looking for a fight. She disobeyed the teacher in the classroom, who called for help from the office. She disobeyed the person from the office, who then called in the police officer. She repeatedly disobeyed him and left him no choice but to compel her to obey him. She then hit the officer in the face. The amount of force he used was quite reasonable. It was the teenager’s resistance that made it look excessive - had she not been pushing away from him, she would not have turned her desk over. And now the officer has been thrown under the bus for the incident, which was totally and completely the fault of the teenager. At that age, she knows the difference between right and wrong, and she knows that what she did was stupid and wrong. The only conclusion is that she did it deliberately. IMNSHO, if the kid’s parents had brought her up to respect authority, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Parents need to discipline their children so that society doesn’t have to. Oh, and **Bryan**? Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6825 "2015-10-30T22:52:09Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No, asshole. I live in the real world, which is why my statement was correct. Your problem isn’t that you don’t live in the real world. Your problem is that you have the intellect of a mildly retarded sea cucumber. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6826 "2015-10-30T22:53:34Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > When the unedited video and story came out, it was totally different. This was a teenager looking for a fight. She disobeyed the teacher in the classroom, who called for help from the office. She disobeyed the person from the office, who then called in the police officer. She repeatedly disobeyed him and left him no choice but to compel her to obey him. She then hit the officer in the face. Where is the unedited video, and what timestamps in the video did all of these things happen? Also, what do you mean by “left him no choice but to compel her to obey him”? Why and how was that his only remaining choice? What would have happened that would have been so terrible if he had done something else, like keep talking to her and trying to de-escalate? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6827 "2015-10-30T23:11:15Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > When the unedited video and story came out, it was totally different. [Here are all three videos.](http://www.11alive.com/videos/news/local/2015/10/27/74703190/)The third clip shows an extended period before the physical encounter. Please indicate exactly where you believe the officer was “attacked” by the girl, or else provide a link to the other video which apparently only you have seen. > [@](#): > > She then hit the officer in the face. In the video, after the officer has already grabbed her around the neck, she flails about a bit and her hand might lightly have grazed his face. (It’s not clear if she actually made contact.) Is this what you are talking about? > [@](#): > > The amount of force he used was quite reasonable. It was the teenager’s resistance that made it look excessive - had she not been pushing away from him, she would not have turned her desk over. And now the officer has been thrown under the bus for the incident, which was totally and completely the fault of the teenager. At that age, she knows the difference between right and wrong, and she knows that what she did was stupid and wrong. The only conclusion is that she did it deliberately. I stand by my assessment that you are deranged. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6828 "2015-10-30T23:12:24Z")
You might need to provide him a doll so he can point to it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6829 "2015-10-30T23:15:14Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No, asshole. I live in the real world, which is why my statement was correct. > > You liberal twits that live in a utopian dreamworld full of rainbows and unicorn farts are a bunch of sheep. You saw a selectively edited video, guaranteed to make you swell up with oh-so-justified outrage, and HuffPo did it because they knew nobody would bother to question it. They also wrote the descriptions in such a way as to make it appear that it was the big, bad cop beating up on the poor, defenseless widduh teenage girl. > > When the unedited video and story came out, it was totally different. This was a teenager looking for a fight. She disobeyed the teacher in the classroom, who called for help from the office. She disobeyed the person from the office, who then called in the police officer. She repeatedly disobeyed him and left him no choice but to compel her to obey him. She then hit the officer in the face. > \ You may be right. Can I see the video you are referencing, because I have not seen this version. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6830 "2015-10-30T23:21:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I stand by my assessment that you are deranged. > [@Good Morning](#): > > General Taylor: Dick, I’ve covered for you a lot of times 'cause I thought you were a little crazy. But you’re not crazy, you’re mean. And this is just radio. Readers are encouraged to paraphrase as they see fit. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6831 "2015-10-30T23:30:43Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Readers are encouraged to paraphrase as they see fit. To interpret the video as the girl attacking the officer you have to be both mean and crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6832 "2015-10-30T23:56:22Z")
She attacked him with her eyes. Damn her eyes! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6833 "2015-10-31T00:00:23Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > You may be right. Can I see the video you are referencing, because I have not seen this version. That’s a good trick! I want to see a link to the hallucination, too! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6834 "2015-10-31T00:13:19Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > She attacked him with her eyes. Damn her eyes! Her name is Inga? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6835 "2015-10-31T00:38:14Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No, asshole. I live in the real world, which is why my statement was correct. > > You liberal twits that live in a utopian dreamworld full of rainbows and unicorn farts are a bunch of sheep. You saw a selectively edited video, guaranteed to make you swell up with oh-so-justified outrage, and HuffPo did it because they knew nobody would bother to question it. They also wrote the descriptions in such a way as to make it appear that it was the big, bad cop beating up on the poor, defenseless widduh teenage girl. > > When the unedited video and story came out, it was totally different. This was a teenager looking for a fight. She disobeyed the teacher in the classroom, who called for help from the office. She disobeyed the person from the office, who then called in the police officer. She repeatedly disobeyed him and left him no choice but to compel her to obey him. She then hit the officer in the face. > > The amount of force he used was quite reasonable. It was the teenager’s resistance that made it look excessive - had she not been pushing away from him, she would not have turned her desk over. And now the officer has been thrown under the bus for the incident, which was totally and completely the fault of the teenager. At that age, she knows the difference between right and wrong, and she knows that what she did was stupid and wrong. The only conclusion is that she did it deliberately. > > IMNSHO, if the kid’s parents had brought her up to respect authority, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Parents need to discipline their children so that society doesn’t have to. > > Oh, and **Bryan**? Fuck off. You’re as delusional as you are uncreative. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6836 "2015-10-31T01:02:29Z")
Oh, Clothie, you really are something. But then, so’s a dung beetle. Point of fact, a dung beetle’s favorite habitat is also ‘something’. I’m not sure where you fall on this continuum, but I’m certain you’re in there someplace. The dung beetle at least doesn’t know he’s full of shit. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6837 "2015-10-31T03:53:34Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > This was a teenager looking for a fight. Yes, she was. > [@Clothahump](#): > > She disobeyed the teacher in the classroom, who called for help from the office. Yes, she did. > [@Clothahump](#): > > She disobeyed the person from the office, who then called in the police officer. Yes, she did. > [@Clothahump](#): > > She repeatedly disobeyed him and left him no choice but to compel her to obey him. Yes, she did. > [@Clothahump](#): > > She then hit the officer in the face. No, she did not. > [@Clothahump](#): > > The amount of force he used was quite reasonable. f. No, it was clearly excessive. I get the frustration. I put myself in the teacher’s position and try to figure out what I would have done. Each time I do, I feel like punching the kid in the face. Probably a good thing I’m not a teacher. Or a cop. I don’t think any of the ‘correct’ responses would have felt satisfying. And I do not know what they are, really. How to get the kid to relent and still have some semblance of authority in the classroom? How do we not make the whole class about her tantrum and waste all of the class’s time? Right up until the time the cop laid hands on her, she was clearly in the wrong. 100 % wrong. It was still not an excuse for violence. She had not been violent. She had not threatened _anyone’s_ safety or property. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6838 "2015-10-31T06:31:59Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > She then hit the officer in the face. Please provide the URL for the video where you saw this, and the time stamp. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6839 "2015-10-31T08:03:11Z")
> [@Karate student stomps on man's head, his teacher posts the video on Youtube 25 years later](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karate-student-stomps-on-mans-head-his-teacher-posts-the-video-on-youtube-25-years-later/507260/25): > > As most of you know, I am a martial artist. I run a school . . . . > > There are people running around with black belts on who have no concept of honor, integrity, discipline or self-control, and they piss in the pool for those of us who are trying to make a living and teach martial arts to the best of our ability. Répétez s’il vous plait: _cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance_. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6840 "2015-10-31T13:46:26Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > She then hit the officer in the face. Yeah, I’ve seen the pictures of the cops black eye. Apparently, his retina detached and he may need surgery to regain sight in the eye. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=341) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=343)