# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 346
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6901 "2015-11-02T17:23:44Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Emphasis added, and quoted for truth: low-IQ people can certainly see that. The rest of us see the girl flailing her arms trying to stay upright. > > You are almost preternaturally stupid, **Clothahump**. I’ve no idea how you keep managing to operate your keyboard well enough to type this drivel. > [@Muffin](#): > > Clothahump, you are delusional. Pity that you are into child abuse. Utterly deranged. I’m amazed that they let him out of the house (and if they do that he can find his way back home by himself). The scary thing is that he’s probably eligible to serve on juries and vote. > [@Clothahump](#): > > When I say he had no choice but to compel her, I mean exactly that. If you believe the degree of force that was used was reasonable, you’re not only idiotic and deranged, you’re also morally defective. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6902 "2015-11-02T17:24:25Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Where have you clowns come up with this “deadly force” bullshit in this incident? Leavering/slamming the back of a person’s head down onto a hard floor is deadly force. Since you do not grasp the concept, you should stop pretending to teach martial arts to children. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6903 "2015-11-02T17:29:29Z")
[Aparently not the first time he used his position of authority to harass a minority](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/video-appears-show-cop-body-slamming-student-s-c-classroom-n451896): > [@](#): > > Fields, who is white, is named as a defendant in a 2013 federal lawsuit that claims he “unfairly and recklessly targets African-American students with allegations of gang membership and criminal gang activity.” Oh, and **Smapti**? The school only _has_ one cop? > [@](#): > > Ben Fields, one of two school resource officers assigned to Spring Valley. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6904 "2015-11-02T17:57:48Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > This whole incident came about because of the actions of the girl, not the actions of the officer. When I say he had no choice but to compel her, I mean exactly that. She had already defied a teacher, a school administrator, and the officer, more than once. When you have dug yourself that deeply into a hole, nothing good will come of it. Although I’ve observed that almost every interaction with **Clothahump** is ultimately pointless, I think the attitude expressed in this paragraph is fairly typical of the authoritarian view of public service, and deserves some discussion. So I’m going to try a response, not to **Clothy** individually, but to this point of view in general. The problem with seeing the girl as the author of this specific chain of events is that it includes a presumption that only one type of response to defiance of authority is appropriate, and an expectation that therefore only one type of response is _possible_. Further, any questioning of that presumption and expectation is seen as an apologia for the behavior of the girl. But forcing compliance is not the only option for authorities in response to recalcitrance; in fact, it’s only in special cases the most appropriate response. Certainly in a learning environment, immediate compliance takes a back seat to the welfare of the other students, which in this instance was in no way served by bringing the confrontation to a head during class. The cop bears full responsibility for the excessive use of force, and has quite rightly suffered strict consequences. Good riddance to poor judgement. However, he was not the only person in authority who exhibited poor judgement here. That started with the teacher and was compounded by the administrator who doubled down on the foolishness. Compelling the girl to follow his instructions (to relinquish the cell phone) was more important to that teacher than the supposed reason for those instructions (to remove a disruptive element from the class). In fact, in pursuing compliance, the teacher brought his own authority to bear in creating and expanding the disruption he was ostensibly trying to prevent, and placed himself deliberately into a classic standoff situation he should’ve know damn well he needed to avoid if he was to deliver the scheduled lesson to the rest of the students. The most proper response ISTM would’ve been to defer corrective action to the end of the period. The girl was sitting at the side of the classroom and was by all reports not speaking or making noise. Deferring punishment to the end of the classroom might not have been satisfying to the teacher, but it certainly would’ve been more edifying for the other students. That the girl was disobedient was bad behavior, deserving correction and counselling. That the teacher and administrator snowballed that adolescent disobedience into a physical confrontation involving a school resource officer was general incompetence. That the resource officer chose to use force in the manner he did was without question abusive. The girl is guilty of being a troubled teen. The teacher and administrator are guilty of poor job performance. Officer Fields is guilty of assault. But to strict authoritarians, it’s the youngest and least mature person involved in the incident who’s most responsible for how it went down. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6905 "2015-11-02T18:14:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Watch the video again, especially the second one. I watched it multiple times. At the beginning of the video the cop is already wrapped around the girl from behind. Almost immediately she appears to be struggling and flailing. I saw no punch and no clear contact with the cop’s face, but it’s possible her flailing hand touched his face (after he had already wrapped her in a hold from behind). He deliberately slams her backwards (I say “deliberately” because of how he moved his other hand lower to get leverage for the slam), with enough force that a child’s neck could have snapped, I think. > [@](#): > > And please note that the desk going backwards is as a result of the kid fighting, not a “body slam” (is that the new buzzword that libs were instructed to use on this?). Body slam is just how it looked to me. And it’s going backwards because that’s what the cop wanted to do. > [@](#): > > Your question is meaningless. You might as well ask, what if purple monkeys were flying around the room while it all happened. > > He didn’t apply deadly force. You can what-if this all you want, but I’ll go by the video. I’ll take this as a cowardly dodge, since that slam seemed forceful enough to do serious damage or kill, with bad luck and a bad angle. Honestly can’t imagine how anyone can see a clear punch in this video, or have no questions at all about the cop’s behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6906 "2015-11-02T18:36:27Z")
Clothahump is a jerk, which is enough on this board to turf the SOB, even if telling two mods and a guest to fuck off isn’t, for some strange reason. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6907 "2015-11-02T18:42:18Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Clothahump is a jerk, which is enough on this board to turf the SOB, even if telling two mods and a guest to fuck off isn’t, for some strange reason. Yup, clear and repeated violation of the board rules, even doing so to Mods, and not so much as a note in response. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6908 "2015-11-02T19:23:18Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Yup, clear and repeated violation of the board rules, even doing so to Mods, and not so much as a note in response. Uh oh. Who will be responsible for the inevitable – and totally necessary – authoritarian response? Inquiring minds… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6909 "2015-11-02T19:28:24Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Oh, and **Smapti**? The school only _has_ one cop? Were they _both_ on duty at the campus on the day in question? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6910 "2015-11-02T19:29:32Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Yes. > [@Chimera](#): > > Yes. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Thirded. Why? If you know you are not capable of fighting something, then proceeding to fight it anyway is a waste of effort. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6911 "2015-11-02T19:40:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why? > > If you know you are not capable of fighting something, then proceeding to fight it anyway is a waste of effort. I’m glad you’ve changed your mind about people with terminal illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6912 "2015-11-02T19:41:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why? > > If you know you are not capable of fighting something, then proceeding to fight it anyway is a waste of effort. I guess my earlier post was too subtle, which is a new experience for me. If you don’t fight, the officer’s attorney will argue that it was consensual. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6913 "2015-11-02T19:41:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why? > > If you know you are not capable of fighting something, then proceeding to fight it anyway is a waste of effort. For some it might help to prevent future feelings of guilt for not fighting back; others might decide they need to fight back (and even be physically injured) so others will believe that they were truly attacked (since a frequent dismissal of rape or sexual assault is “I don’t see any bruises” or some variation); and others may just be incapable of allowing their bodies to be used or manipulating without resisting. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6914 "2015-11-02T19:43:03Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > If you don’t fight, the officer’s attorney will argue that it was consensual. That is a valid point and I concede the argument on that basis. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6915 "2015-11-02T19:44:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That is a valid point and I concede the argument on that basis. Geez, is it my birthday or something? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6916 "2015-11-02T19:46:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why? > > If you know you are not capable of fighting something, then proceeding to fight it anyway is a waste of effort. I’ve ended several fights before they began by making the other party know that, no matter what happens, I’m going to make them pay for it. And these were big guys (or multiple guys) who thought they’d already won the fight and I’d just fall over and let them have their way with me (beating wise). “I can’t fight back, I’ll lose” means you already lost. “I’m going to fight back, even if I lose” scares bullies. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6917 "2015-11-02T19:55:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Were they _both_ on duty at the campus on the day in question? Neither of them were on duty _at the campus_; [they have to be called in](https://www.richland2.org/Departments/communications/Pages/HowDoI/SchoolResourceOfficers.aspx). Why couldn’t Fields have called Bradley to assist? Fear of being ridiculed for being unable to handle a ~90 pound girl by himself? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6918 "2015-11-02T19:56:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you know you are not capable of fighting something, then proceeding to fight it anyway is a waste of effort. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m glad you’ve changed your mind about people with terminal illnesses. Check. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6919 "2015-11-02T19:58:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m glad you’ve changed your mind about people with terminal illnesses. Cute, but one does not “fight” an illness in the same way one would fight a _person_. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6920 "2015-11-02T19:59:11Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Why couldn’t Fields have called Bradley to assist? How long would that have taken? To what further extent would the educational process have been disrupted? Would we not now be arguing about how the cops held up an entire classroom for 45 minutes because they needed a two-on-one advantage to deal with one little girl? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=345) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=347)