# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 348
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6941 "2015-11-02T23:47:50Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’ve ended several fights before they began by making the other party know that, no matter what happens, I’m going to make them pay for it. And these were big guys (or multiple guys) who thought they’d already won the fight and I’d just fall over and let them have their way with me (beating wise). > > “I can’t fight back, I’ll lose” means you already lost. > > “I’m going to fight back, even if I lose” scares bullies. Yup, that’s how I see it too. If you put up resistance, at least they have to work to hurt you. If you just lay there, you’re rewarding them with ease and convenience. And they will feel entitled to that. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6942 "2015-11-02T23:53:23Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > In my school it was caning by stiff upper lip types. You complain, but people pay top dollar for that stuff ! ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6943 "2015-11-02T23:58:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I went to parochial school for 12 years, and from seventh grade on we were taught by the Christian Brothers. Corporal punishment was standard, and some of us got paddled and slapped around regularly. > [@Kenm](#): > > At least you weren’t at Mount Cashel in Newfoundland, where Fields would have been right at home. > [@Muffin](#): > > In my school it was caning by stiff upper lip types. Jeez, I just had nuns with rulers. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6944 "2015-11-02T23:59:49Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > [A new police-involved shooting.](http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article42229305.html) Unusual circumstances, but I’m not sure the police did anything improper. They were certainly looking out for the public interest when they opted to put the bull down. If the story as presented is accurate, it seems likely the armed rancher, um, strenuously objected to destroying the animal. The story says gunfire was exchanged between the parties; if this is correct, it’s hard to fault the deputies. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6945 "2015-11-03T00:27:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You complain, but people pay top dollar for that stuff ! Hanky-spanky. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6946 "2015-11-03T00:37:02Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > [A new police-involved shooting.](http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article42229305.html) The guy’s wife had a heart attack after she learned why her husband was so passionate about the bull. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6947 "2015-11-03T05:53:16Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Let’s go back to the beginning. This whole incident came about because of the actions of the girl, not the actions of the officer. When I say he had no choice but to compel her, I mean exactly that. She had already defied a teacher, a school administrator, and the officer, more than once. When you have dug yourself that deeply into a hole, nothing good will come of it. > > Oh, and he didn’t cause “grievous harm” to her. As to whether she punched the cop. Looking at [your video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgH5R07MWv0), I think it shows fairly clearly that she did try take a swipe at him (0:10), maybe at his shoulder, since his arm is already around her neck and he is trying to wrench her up out of her seat BY HER NECK (0:09). In any case, her hand very clearly DOESN’T connect with his face. At 0:09-0:10 she kicks back and the chair bucks backwards and comes back down. At 0:11 the cop quite clearly pulls her knee up and her head back and flips the desk. Her head nearly clips the desk behind her and she hits the floor on her shoulder (I hope not her head/neck, but not clear). Then the cop THROWS her across the room (0:15, clearer at 5:16). As to whether the deputy caused serious harm to the kid, I’m going on [Muffin’s link](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sc-student-brutalized-school-resource-officer-lawyer/story?id=34774228)that says she was hospitalized and had injuries to her arm, neck, back and skin. (See post 6932. Thanks for the link Muffin.) So, maybe not “grievous”. I’ll own that was my hyperbole, but you’ve still got a cop causing bodily harm to a student in a classroom, just because she wouldn’t cooperate. What that cop did was crazy dangerous. He tossed her around like a ragdoll. Your argument that it was the teen’s fault that the situation got physical mirrors the claims of the sheriff. I think that is horseshit and betrays a deep problem with the department’s attitude, but I don’t think I’m going to convince you in that area.\* But as long as you’re on the same page as sheriff Leon regarding who was at fault for the escalation of the incident, I’m curious as to how far you are in agreement with him regarding the cop’s response. The Sheriff’s own words are “His actions after he put his hands on her disturbed me just like anybody else who saw it.” Did they not disturb you? \*Maybe go read xenophon41’s excellent post a few times and give it some thought (6904). Couldn’t put it any better myself. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6948 "2015-11-03T12:58:49Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Unusual circumstances, but I’m not sure the police did anything improper. They were certainly looking out for the public interest when they opted to put the bull down. If the story as presented is accurate, it seems likely the armed rancher, um, strenuously objected to destroying the animal. The story says gunfire was exchanged between the parties; if this is correct, it’s hard to fault the deputies. Yeah, maybe. Or maybe not. I’m always suspicious of these cop and bull stories. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6949 "2015-11-03T13:57:31Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah, maybe. Or maybe not. I’m always suspicious of these cop and bull stories. So you think the Adams Co. Sherriff’s Dept might be bull-shooting us about it? ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6950 "2015-11-03T14:26:22Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > So you think the Adams Co. Sherriff’s Dept might be bull-shooting us about it? They might be steering us in the wrong direction. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6951 "2015-11-03T15:01:52Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Fields will be hired as a cop in an adjoining county, rise to justice of the peace then appointed to the Supreme Court by President Trump. Thousands of [**bad cops**](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BETRAYED_BY_THE_BADGE_STOPPING_BAD_COPS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-11-03-00-00-36) in the U.S. play job musical chairs with impunity. > [@](#): > > . . . The AP examination found about 1,000 officers in six years who lost their licenses because of sex crimes that included rape, or sexual misconduct ranging from propositioning citizens to consensual but prohibited on-duty intercourse. That number fails to reflect the breadth of the problem, however, because it measures only officers who faced an official process called decertification and not all states have such a system or provided records. . . . > > . . . A National Decertification Index contains the names of nearly 20,000 officers who have lost their licenses for problems that include sex abuse. But contributing is voluntary, and only 39 states do so. . . . Twenty thousand! But the length of time it took for the index to accumulate 20,000 assholes isn’t revealed. It’s not as though this story has blown the lid off a secret. The new info is the number of criminals playing jurisdictional hop scotch and literally fucking the public. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6952 "2015-11-03T16:10:10Z")
[Cop Accused of Shooting Man in Back Goes on Trial for Murder](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/03/us/ap-us-traffic-stop-shot-in-back.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > HARRISBURG, Pa. — A police officer who shot an unarmed motorist in the back took a life unnecessarily, a prosecutor said Tuesday as the officer’s murder trial opened. A defense lawyer said his client fired the shots in self-defense. > > Mearkle, 37, shocked Kassick four times with the stun gun, then shot him twice in the back, four seconds apart, according to police. The 15-year veteran told investigators she fired because he would not show her his hands and she thought he was reaching into his jacket for a gun. Of course he was reaching for a gun and it was self-defence. It’s almost like there’s a script she’s following. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6953 "2015-11-03T16:52:55Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > [Cop Accused of Shooting Man in Back Goes on Trial for Murder](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/03/us/ap-us-traffic-stop-shot-in-back.html?_r=0) > > Of course he was reaching for a gun and it was self-defence. It’s almost like there’s a script she’s following. It’s that nanosecond compliance time people like Smapti require. Don’t meet that, you deserve death (apparently). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6954 "2015-11-03T17:14:47Z")
Those stunned by stunned guns are, well, stunned. To mistake any writhing from the shock for weapons-reaching or even noncompliance would be an apology too far even for the Smeoptan brothers. I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6955 "2015-11-03T17:49:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Those stunned by stunned guns are, well, stunned. To mistake any writhing from the shock for weapons-reaching or even noncompliance would be an apology too far even for the Smeoptan brothers. > > I hope. You may want to go back and re-read this entire thread. The whole reaction time thing was already covered. They require INSTANT compliance or you deserve pain and/or death. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6956 "2015-11-03T18:25:46Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You may want to go back and re-read this entire thread. The whole reaction time thing was already covered. They require INSTANT compliance or you deserve pain and/or death. And anyone who moves gets shot. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6957 "2015-11-03T19:58:12Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > And anyone who moves gets shot. Freeze…, show me your hands…, get down on the ground…–sometimes it can get confusing for the police, I imagine: Something similar to this: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Raising Arizona** > > Gale: All right, ya hayseeds, it’s a stick-up. Everybody freeze. Everybody down on the ground. > > Feisty Hayseed: Well, which is it, young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, if’n I freeze, I can’t rightly drop. And if’n I drop, I’m a-gonna be in motion. You see… > > Gale: Shut up! > > Feisty Hayseed: Okay then. > > Gale: Everybody down on the ground! > > Evelle: Y’all can just forget that part about freezin’ now. > > Gale: Better still to get down there. > > Evelle: Yeah, y’all hear that, don’t ya? > > [Everybody lays down. Gale looks at the now-empty teller windows] > > Gale: Shit! Where’d all the tellers go? > > Teller’s voices: We’re down here, sir. > > Evelle: They’re on the floor as you commanded, Gale. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6958 "2015-11-03T20:01:36Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Freeze…, show me your hands…, get down on the ground…–sometimes it can get confusing for the police, I imagine: Something similar to this: Or [this](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111161/quotes): > [@](#): > > So I’m backing out the door, right, and I got the TV, like this; it was a big old thing, I couldn’t see shit; suddenly I hear this voice, “Police, kid, hands in the air.” You know, I was standing there, holdin’ on to that TV, so finally the voice says, “You hear what I said, boy?” And I say, “Yes sir, I sure did, but if I drop this fucking thing you got me on destruction of property too.” ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6959 "2015-11-04T00:53:45Z")
If a cop stops your car and tells you “Put your hands out your window or I’ll shoot you!”, and you don’t, eventually he or she is within his or her rights to shoot you, right Smapti ? This is an interesting clip, but for the purposes of this thread you can just [start watching at 4:20](http://twistedsifter.com/videos/hands-free-mark-gogeney-by-ross-harris/) What if you can’t… because you don’t have any hands? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/6960 "2015-11-04T01:24:49Z")
You may remember the previous discussion in this thread concerning a bad cop who shot a fellow for following his instructions. The fellow stepped out of his vehicle at a Circle K gas station while on his way to work. The shooter requested “May I see your license please?” The fellow reached inside his vehicle to retrieve it, so the cop shot him. Of course it is a black victim and a white cop. The full video of the shooting was released last month. The coverage of the shooting is unequivocal – both of the shooting itself ([in the first minute of the video](https://youtu.be/VvaWT2d1HFg)), and of how the shooter tried to blame it on the victim ([at 13:10](https://youtu.be/VvaWT2d1HFg?t=13m10s)). **“I pulled him over for a seat-belt violation. Before I could even get out of my car, he jumped out, stared at me, and as I jumped out of my car and identified myself as I approached him, he jumped head-first back into his car. I started retracting back towards the rear of his vehicle telling him, ‘Look, get out of the car. Let me see your hands.’ He jumped out of the car. I saw something black in his hands. I ran to the other side of the car yelling at him, and he kept coming towards me. Apparently, it was his wallet.”** The shooter was charged with assault and battery, but released on bail, which he then violated by shoplifting with his wife. [Yesterday, a black judge tightened up his bail terms](http://www.live5news.com/story/30406442/former-state-trooper-sean-groubert-arrested-for-shoplifting) to include house arrest except for job etc. I sincerely hope that the trial judge for the shooting throws the book at him lying as an officer in an attempt to blame the victim. Vid-cams on police vehicles and and on officers should be mandatory, and use of vid-cams by the public to record police should be protected. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=347) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=349)