# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 357
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7121 "2015-11-25T02:11:31Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > But you don’t have to. You can pick a cause. BLM’s is fair treatment by the police. And the methods for tackling either problem will be different. The police are ultimately vulnerable to the kind of pressure applied by protesters like BLM. The gangs committing black-on-black crime ™, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7122 "2015-11-25T02:52:56Z")
[How Chicago tried to cover up a police execution](http://chicagoreporter.com/how-chicago-tried-to-cover-up-a-police-execution/) > [@](#): > > Without that whistleblower—and without that video—it’s highly unlikely that Chicago Police officer Jason Van Dyke would be facing first-degree murder charges today. > > “When it was first reported it was a typical police shooting story,” Kalven said, where police claim self-defense and announce an investigation, and “at that point the story disappears.” And, typically, a year or 18 months later, the Independent Police Review Authority confirms the self-defense claim, and “by then no one remembers the initial incident.” > > “There are an average of 50 police shootings of civilians every year in Chicago, and no one is ever charged,” said Futterman. “Without the video, this would have been just one more of 50 such incidents, where the police blotter defines the narrative and nothing changes.” > > … > > The next month, the City Council approved a $5 million settlement with McDonald’s family, whose attorneys had obtained the video. They said it showed McDonald walking away from police at the time of the shooting, contradicting the police story that he was threatening or had “lunged at” cops. The settlement included a provision keeping the video confidential. > > … > > “This case shows the operation of the code of silence in the Chicago Police Department,” said Futterman. “From the very start you have officers and detectives conspiring to cover up the story. The question is, why are they not being charged?” > > Van Dyke’s history “also shows what happens when the police department consistently chooses not to look at patterns of abuse complaints when investigating misconduct charges,” he adds. This failure “is one of the reasons an officer like Van Dyke has an opportunity to execute a 17-year-old kid.” > > Rather than acknowledging the systemic failures, Mayor Rahm Emanuel is now trying to frame the issue as the action of one bad officer, as the Tribune reports. “One individual needs to be held accountable,” he said Monday. > > Kalven calls Emanuel’s “reframing” of the narrative “essentially false.” He points out that “everything we know now, the city knew from Day One. They had the officers on the scene. They knew there were witnesses. They had the autopsy, they had the video… They maintained a false narrative about those events, and they did it for a year, when it could have been corrected almost immediately…They spent a year stonewalling any calls for transparency, any information about the case.” “The settlement included a provision keeping the video confidential.” I bet. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7123 "2015-11-25T03:02:46Z")
Motherfucker. I can’t believe that this shit is just swept up and hidden. I’d riot like a bitch in this case. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7124 "2015-11-25T03:34:34Z")
Wow that’s a shocking video. He just straight up shot the dude. He’ll get acquitted by a jury. The defense will bring experts that show how fast someone with a knife can close and kill someone. They will extol the superhuman strength and ability to ignore pain that someone on PCP has. They will say that the little spin made the officer think the victim was going to charge him. And the jury will probably buy it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7125 "2015-11-25T03:38:14Z")
This incident happened about a half mile from my house, and I hadn’t even heard about it until the city settled with the family earlier this spring. Quick question, though. Why is the charge first degree murder? Doesn’t that require premeditation? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7126 "2015-11-25T03:57:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > This incident happened about a half mile from my house, and I hadn’t even heard about it until the city settled with the family earlier this spring. > > Quick question, though. Why is the charge first degree murder? Doesn’t that require premeditation? Not in Illinois: > [@](#): > > a) A person who kills an individual without lawful justification commits first degree murder if, in performing the acts which cause the death: > (1) he either intends to kill or do great bodily harm to that individual or another, or knows that such acts will cause death to that individual or another > **[Illinois General Assembly - Illinois Compiled Statutes](https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K9-1)** > > Illinois Compiled Statutes Table of Contents ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7127 "2015-11-25T04:05:38Z")
Why did I watch that video? Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7128 "2015-11-25T04:11:13Z")
It also seems that by claiming self defense it’s automatically bumped down to second degree murder: > [@](#): > > At the time of the killing, he/she believed that the killing would have been lawfully justified but the belief was unreasonable. [http://statelaws.findlaw.com/illinois-law/illinois-second-degree-murder-laws.html#sthash.qAvBH93S.dpuf](http://statelaws.findlaw.com/illinois-law/illinois-second-degree-murder-laws.html#sthash.qAvBH93S.dpuf) If the quote is true then it becomes second degree murder. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7129 "2015-11-25T04:36:42Z")
Was the victim still alive and moving before being shot while on the ground? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7130 "2015-11-25T05:22:52Z")
It looks like it, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7131 "2015-11-25T05:32:16Z")
I noticed that the officers were both moving TOWARDS Mr. McDonald from the moment they exited their vehicle. I suppose that’s part of the training that an officer receives: move towards the threat, so it can be even more threatening? :dubious: That way the use of force is justified, aye? Turn a remote threat into an immediate one and _voilà_! Justified killing! :mad: So if it was justified, why the payout and coverups? 😕 Rahm Emanuel is wrong: there are a lot of shitty people getting away with shitty things here; it’s not just one bad cop. ---
**Author:** ![rowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@rowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowe)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7132 "2015-11-25T06:08:49Z")
What prevents the police from deleting the dashcam footage for an incident like this? I would assume in a corrupt PD (like Chicago sure appears to be) that getting around any type of internal controls wouldn’t be too difficult. And yet the footage remains to show how Van Dyke executed the suspect. I can’t find any info on the safeguards with some quick searching. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7133 "2015-11-25T07:30:04Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > But you don’t have to. You can pick a cause. BLM’s is fair treatment by the police. It’s expanded beyond that. They also want free food at the cafeteria for everyone. [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/20/unc-protesters-derail-town-hall-meeting-on-race-by/](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/20/unc-protesters-derail-town-hall-meeting-on-race-by/) But you can pretend they are a single issue movement. We know they aren’t. We also know they aren’t concerned about the greatest dangers to their own lives. Each other. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7134 "2015-11-25T09:49:34Z")
It’s a fair point that black people kill more black people than the cops do. But, seeing how police are public servants, paid with taxes, they should be an easier problem to fix. There’s also a matter of trend: violent crime rates are down across the USA, killings by the police are up. > **[FBI: Violent crime is down, but police killing civilians is up](https://theweek.com/speedreads/441954/fbi-violent-crime-down-but-police-killing-civilians)** ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7135 "2015-11-25T11:28:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s expanded beyond that. They also want free food at the cafeteria for everyone. [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/20/unc-protesters-derail-town-hall-meeting-on-race-by/](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/20/unc-protesters-derail-town-hall-meeting-on-race-by/) But you can pretend they are a single issue movement. We know they aren’t. We also know they aren’t concerned about the greatest dangers to their own lives. But we aren’t discussing climate change. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7136 "2015-11-25T13:27:52Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > But we aren’t discussing climate change. Well, from what appears to have happened to race relations over the past seven or eight years, we definitely should not elect a climate scientist as President! ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7137 "2015-11-25T13:46:56Z")
The situation in Chicago stinks from the head down. They delayed charging this cop until they had no choice. At least four other cops participated in the deliberate destruction of evidence. The city paid the family $5 million dollars before a suit was even filed, if I understand correctly, so they knew how bad this is. The residents of Chicago should demand new leadership, including a new Mayor. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7138 "2015-11-25T14:32:54Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > The residents of Chicago should demand new leadership, including a new Mayor. I think to fix this you’d need God Himself, or some all-knowing computer, to come in, sort out the entire populace, and kill about a hundred thousand people on all sides of the equation. Gang members, cops, politicians. For that matter, I am utterly appalled that there is no Justice Department investigation into that whole Black Site bullshit. Hell, at this point I’m wondering why there isn’t both a national and international uproar about the USA having something like that operational. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7139 "2015-11-25T15:27:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Dashcam Video of Officer Jason Van Dyke Shooting Laquan McDonald](https://youtu.be/Ix2N6_jLAgA?t=5m7s). I set it to start playing right before the vehicle rolls up to the scene, at 5:07 of the video; the shooting takes place at 5:33. [Smapti]The guy clearly had it coming. I am positive that the officer feared for his life. Look at the guy, he has a spring in his step and is almost dancing. What kind of person dances and almost skips when surrounded by that many police? Somebody who has something up their sleeves, that’s who. This officer was perfectly justified and the thug was a criminal anyway for not obeying police. I mean, come on, we all know that the punishment for not obeying a police officer is death by firing squad. And this is the way it should be; people need to respect authority. And anyway, cops have a right to defend themselves and this criminal could of had a gun. [/Smapti] Did I miss anything? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7140 "2015-11-25T15:43:42Z")
Nope, that’s pretty much what he’s going to say. No matter how egregious the crime, there will always be some people who will repeat “The thug had it coming,” and by “thug” they mean “uppity nigger.” Of course, this case is even more troubling if that is possible in the extent of the coverup that was attempted. They let a guy who committed a murder continue being an active duty cop for a year and a number of members of the CPD tried their best to ensure he kept on being a cop until retirement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=356) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=358)