# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 358
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7141 "2015-11-25T15:47:41Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Did I miss anything? Yep: > [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > There’s also a matter of trend: violent crime rates are down across the USA, killings by the police are up. \*\*Smpati \*\*might say the reason crime is down _is becaus_e cops are killing “criminals” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7142 "2015-11-25T15:52:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No matter how egregious the crime, there will always be some people who will repeat “The thug had it coming,” and by “thug” they mean “uppity nigger.” And no matter how innocent the cop, there will always be some people who will scream racism. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7143 "2015-11-25T15:59:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Nope, that’s pretty much what he’s going to say. > > No matter how egregious the crime, there will always be some people who will repeat “The thug had it coming,” and by “thug” they mean “uppity nigger.” > > Of course, this case is even more troubling if that is possible in the extent of the coverup that was attempted. They let a guy who committed a murder continue being an active duty cop for a year and a number of members of the CPD tried their best to ensure he kept on being a cop until retirement. Well that is the most troubling aspect of the whole situation isn’t it. We have a populace that implicitly condones extrajudicial murder and rape. One reason why prison rape jokes are not a good idea. It dehumanizes unnecessarily a huge population and it sends the message that cruelty and abuse of power is ok. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7144 "2015-11-25T16:05:54Z")
I’m usually on the victim’s side in these types of cases but having seen the video I’m unsure about this one - is it mentioned anywhere _why_ he approached those officers with a knife in his hand? Personally, I would be scared for my life but then again thank god I’m not a police officer. On the other hand shooting him 16 times has no justification at all. Shooting at someone who already fell to the ground is pretty much murder. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7145 "2015-11-25T16:18:01Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > I’m usually on the victim’s side in these types of cases but having seen the video I’m unsure about this one - is it mentioned anywhere _why_ he approached those officers with a knife in his hand? Personally, I would be scared for my life but then again thank god I’m not a police officer. So in your opinion he was coming closer to the officers, not walking away from them? The officers were stationary and he was approaching them, in your view? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7146 "2015-11-25T16:26:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And no matter how innocent the cop, there will always be some people who will scream racism. > > Regards, > Shodan That’s true. But this guy doesn’t seem to be the poster boy for innocent cop. [Chicago police officer charged in deadly shooting has a history of misconduct complaints](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/25/chicago-cop-charged-in-deadly-shooting-has-a-history-of-misconduct-complaints/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_mm-chicagocop-355am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory) > [@](#): > > Van Dyke, a white 14-year veteran of Chicago’s police force, has been accused of misconduct 17 times before, according to data from the University of Chicago and the journalism non-profit Invisible Institute. The database, published less than a week before the announcement that Van Dyke would be prosecuted, details tens of thousands of complaints against Chicago police officers that weren’t previously made public. Fewer than five percent of the allegations resulted in disciplinary actions for the officers; none of the 18 complaints against Van Dyke led to a penalty. > > “We don’t have all of Van Dyke’s complaints but … the misconduct complaints from Van Dyke that we do have in our data tool show by and large excessive force and racial slurs. And he has largely operated with impunity and under a code of silence with the same huddle of officers again and again,” the Invisible Institute’s Alison Flowers told Chicago ABC affiliate WLS. > > … > > The allegations against Van Dyke include 10 complaints of excessive force, including two incidents where he allegedly used a firearm, causing injury. He was also accused of improper searches and making racially or ethnically biased remarks. Four of the allegations were proven factual, but Van Dyke’s actions were deemed lawful and appropriate. In most of the other cases, there was either not enough evidence to prove or disprove the complaint or the allegation was proven unfounded. > > … > > The Independent Police Review Authority (IPRA), which investigates police shootings and misconduct allegations, is led mostly by former cops, according to Chicago public radio station WBEZ. That has led some to question how independent the agency really is. > > “Complaints may be seen not through the eyes of the citizen but through the eyes of a police officer,” Paula Tillman, a former IPRA investigative supervisor who was a Chicago cop herself in the 1970s and 1980s, told WBEZ. “The investigations can be engineered so that they have a tilt toward law enforcement and not what the citizen is trying to say.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7147 "2015-11-25T16:28:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Don’t be ridiculous, of course it takes away from a point when your example doesn’t show what you claim. > BLM isn’t black people as a group. They are a bunch of loud, disruptive bozos who pitch a tantrum whenever some other disruptive bozo gets his disruptive ass shot, providing it is a black disruptive ass. > > If BLM wants to say that innocent black people are getting shot, then they need to wait until some innocent black guy gets shot before they block off the freeway. > > Some dimwitted fuck beats up his woman and grabs for a cop’s gun, and gets his dumb ass shot. Like I’m gonna miss _Wheel of Fortune_ for that. > > Regards, > Shodan They definitely dilute their message when they protest deaths like the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson Missouri. It undercuts their credibility. Fortunately for them, the other side’s kneejerk reaction is to defend people who turn out to be bad cops that murder black men that are running away and then plant weapons on them. Or defend cops that tackle 12 year old girls to the ground because she doesn’t “RESPEKT MY AUTHORITEH” Ferguson had significant problems with racism in the police department but Michael Brown was just a really bad example of that racism. The BLM has got to stop Tawana Brawleying itself. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7148 "2015-11-25T16:39:02Z")
Indeed, the BLM Central Committee should take steps. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7149 "2015-11-25T17:36:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And no matter how innocent the cop, there will always be some people who will scream racism. I suppose that may be the case, but here on the SDMB we seem to mostly discuss the legitimately controversial cases, not every single police shooting. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7150 "2015-11-25T18:02:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No matter how egregious the crime, there will always be some people who will repeat “The thug had it coming,” and by “thug” they mean “uppity nigger.” This guy was a thug. He was high on PCP and breaking into cars to steal radios. When the cops showed up, he slashed a tire and then walked down the street with an open knife. The punishment for that isn’t death, so he didn’t deserve to be shot. But he certainly bears a lot of responsibility for his own death. What’s interesting to me is the similarity between this and the Cleveland shooting. In both cases, the cops put themselves close to the suspect with nothing in between to protect them. So they both legitimately thought they were in very dangerous situations. In both cases, if they were attacked they would only have a split second to protect themselves. If I had a gun and an agitated guy had a knife 20 feet away from me, I’d shoot him at the first hint of a move towards me. Undoubtedly the cop screwed up and shouldn’t be a cop any more. But I am uncomfortable with sending someone into a dangerous situation and then throwing them in jail if they make a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7151 "2015-11-25T18:22:47Z")
Maybe the first shot was a mistake, if I am willing to bend over backwards until I can bite my own shoes. But the other 15? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7152 "2015-11-25T18:25:17Z")
Was he still in danger when the “thug” was on the ground and the cop reloaded and shot him some more? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7153 "2015-11-25T18:30:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Maybe the first shot was a mistake, if I am willing to bend over backwards until I can bite my own shoes. But the other 15? Usually when people start shooting they don’t stop until the clip is empty. I suspect if I was in the same situation I’d do the same. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Was he still in danger when the “thug” was on the ground and the cop reloaded and shot him some more? I don’t believe he shot after he reloaded. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7154 "2015-11-25T18:34:58Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Did I miss anything? Cute. Let’s look at the facts. The man was armed. He had used his weapon with malicious intent, he was attempting to flee, and he ignored multiple instructions to stop or they’d shoot. This was a justified shooting and the _only_ reasons anyone is calling it “murder” (besides the general knee-jerk opposition to police and the law) is because they’re responding histrionically and illogically to a video recording of it and can’t handle the idea that something that looks ugly isn’t therefore necessarily wrong, and the only reason he’s being prosecuted is because a politician wants to appease the mob (a mob which several of you are claiming would be fully justified in _a violent uprising against the government_). Furthermore, I call bull on the “the cops deleted the Burger King’s video” claim. I’ve worked in fast food. Fast food digital surveillance systems don’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7155 "2015-11-25T18:40:23Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Usually when people start shooting they don’t stop until the clip is empty… They do? Well, shit, I didn’t know that! Is that part of their training, then? Because of all the times someone gets shot ten times and then leaps upon the officer? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7156 "2015-11-25T18:42:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They do? Well, shit, I didn’t know that! Is that part of their training, then? Because of all the times someone gets shot ten times and then leaps upon the officer? Someone can survive being shot nine times and the tenth one be the killing blow, but if they die after the first shot, it’s not like the nine after that are going to double-kill them or something. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7157 "2015-11-25T18:43:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Furthermore, I call bull on the “the cops deleted the Burger King’s video” claim. I’ve worked in fast food. Fast food digital surveillance systems don’t work that way. So 86 minutes of video _isn’t_ missing? That’s good! That should clear things up when they release that! ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7158 "2015-11-25T18:47:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cute. Let’s look at the facts. The man was armed. He had used his weapon with malicious intent, he was attempting to flee, and he ignored multiple instructions to stop or they’d shoot. This was a justified shooting and the _only_ reasons anyone is calling it “murder” (besides the general knee-jerk opposition to police and the law) is because they’re responding histrionically and illogically to a video recording of it and can’t handle the idea that something that looks ugly isn’t therefore necessarily wrong, and the only reason he’s being prosecuted is because a politician wants to appease the mob (a mob which several of you are claiming would be fully justified in _a violent uprising against the government_). > > Furthermore, I call bull on the “the cops deleted the Burger King’s video” claim. I’ve worked in fast food. Fast food digital surveillance systems don’t work that way. Please explain the last paragraph. I know nothing about this type of surveillance. Why would/would not be accessible to a third party? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7159 "2015-11-25T18:48:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They do? Well, shit, I didn’t know that! Is that part of their training, then? Because of all the times someone gets shot ten times and then leaps upon the officer? Ever notice that the only time you resort to sarcasm is when you have no more legitimate arguments? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7160 "2015-11-25T18:56:11Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > Please explain the last paragraph. I know nothing about this type of surveillance. Why would/would not be accessible to a third party? For one, there’s no way the company would just allow the cops to sit in the manager’s office unsupervised and play with the DVR. Every time we needed to provide video footage to the police, we’d either play it back ourselves while the officer watched, or we’d burn them a DVD of the period in question. Secondly, in the chain I worked for, the video wasn’t just stored onsite - it was all uploaded to a server elsewhere. Even if there had been a delete function available onsite (and I don’t recall our system even having one), there still would have been a remote copy. I suspect that the district manager either tampered with the video himself or is lying about its having been deleted because of something it contains that’s potentially damaging to Burger King. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=357) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=359)