# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/701 "2015-01-23T21:51:23Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Is this how how you talk to people at your church on Sunday? So we have an unusual way of passing the peace. Let us not let denominational differences divide. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/702 "2015-01-29T04:03:23Z")
A twofer: [police arrest a SF public defender for resisting arrest](http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-public-defender-detained-outside-court-6046088.php) because she was trying to protect her client. How it’s even possible to be arrested solely for resisting arrest is besides me. [A 70 year old Seattle man was arrested for walking while black](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2015/01/28/seattle-police-jailed-elderly-man-for-walking-in-seattle-while-black) when the cop falsely claims he threatened her with a golf club when clearly no such incident was caught by the dashcam. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/703 "2015-01-29T21:39:10Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > A twofer: > > [police arrest a SF public defender for resisting arrest](http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-public-defender-detained-outside-court-6046088.php) because she was trying to protect her client. How it’s even possible to be arrested solely for resisting arrest is besides me. The newscasters were certainly on the side of the lawyer in this case. > [@](#): > > “If police are able to do this to a deputy public defender in front of her client, I can only imagine what is happening out on the streets.” Certainly could have been resolved short of an arrest. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/704 "2015-01-30T13:55:06Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > A twofer: > > [police arrest a SF public defender for resisting arrest](http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-public-defender-detained-outside-court-6046088.php) because she was trying to protect her client. How it’s even possible to be arrested solely for resisting arrest is besides me. > > [A 70 year old Seattle man was arrested for walking while black](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2015/01/28/seattle-police-jailed-elderly-man-for-walking-in-seattle-while-black) when the cop falsely claims he threatened her with a golf club when clearly no such incident was caught by the dashcam. In the first case, the chief of police should resign as a show of good faith, right after firing the officer in question. The officer should also be prosecuted under Federal civil rights legislation. In the second case, the officer should be fired and prevented from ever carrying a gun on any job again. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/705 "2015-01-30T14:05:32Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > The newscasters were certainly on the side of the lawyer in this case. > > Certainly could have been resolved short of an arrest. > [@](#): > > Tillotson was handcuffed to a wall in a holding cell for about an hour [and was only] released because Stansbury … was subpoenaed to take the stand and had to leave. I hope that non-U.S. Dopers will comment on whether such abuses are common in other countries. Thailand is notorious for police abuses, yet I know of zero such examples around where I live. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/706 "2015-01-30T16:06:37Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > In the second case, the officer should be fired and prevented from ever carrying a gun on any job again. The cop in the story seems like one angry person. [This story](http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/spd-offers-apology-after-allegations-false-arrest/njycw/) discusses some social media comments she’s made: > [@](#): > > KIRO 7 confirmed Whitlatch also posted comments on Facebook responding to a post about riots in Ferguson. > > She called it “chronic black racism” and said, “I am tired of black peoples [sic] paranoia that white people are out to get them." > > When Facebook user Brian Davis reacted, she calls him “another black racist.” So, she’s sick of black people’s paranoia that white people are out to get them, and responds by making a completely unjustified arrest of an elderly black man. Nice going! The cops ex-girlfriend [said in an interview](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2015/01/29/ex-tukwila-cop-says-spd-officer-cynthia-whitlatch-is-a-racist-who-once-stole-marijuana-from-police-evidence) that: > [@](#): > > Whitlatch made racist comments about black people she’d encountered while on patrol in Seattle and, in the spring of 2005, stole marijuana from SPD evidence that the couple then smoked together. > > \ > > Whitlatch would arrive home, Purucker said, and say things like, “Goddamn niggers again” or “You should have seen what we did to this guy—we jacked him up.” > > Purucker added, “She had friends in her precinct who were black.” But she said Whitlatch talked about black citizens of Seattle’s East Precinct differently than she did about black police officers. > > Purucker said Whitlatch and other officers (Purucker claims she went on multiple ride-alongs with her girlfriend) would joke about stopping people for “contempt of cop.” Nice! The Seattle PD says that it doesn’t believe that racial profiling or racism was involved in the old man’s arrest. 1. Bullshit! 2. If it really wasn’t racial profiling, then it is surely evidence of sheer incompetence or corruption (pick one). Either way, that cop should be fired. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/707 "2015-01-30T22:19:35Z")
Anybody know the story with this clip of a bike cop macing passers-by? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/708 "2015-01-30T22:36:04Z")
I see there’s a thread about that clip in IMHO. > **[Teacher pepper-sprayed while talking on the phone](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=747838)** > > I searched, but didn’t see a thread on this. Cop Pepper-Sprays Teacher Who Was Talking On A Cell Phone – Good video. KING 5 story. This is what I see: A guy is walking along, talking on his phone. A female Seattle P.D. officer is yelling ‘Get... Smapti promptly blamed a bystander who got maced for not paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/709 "2015-01-30T22:38:00Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > … clip of a bike cop macing passers-by? > > [Hero cop bravely pepper sprays a terrifying attacker brandishing a (possible) weapon. - GIF on Imgur](http://i.imgur.com/UBYRgab.gifv) Again, can any Doper imagine such abuses in developed or even Tiger-status countries? (Outside a few outliers – U.S., Russia and ?) The people wouldn’t stand for it in Thailand (though I realize there are abuses in the South, in terrorist insurrection). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/710 "2015-02-01T18:51:54Z")
[Teens throwing snowballs at each other are held at gunpoint by a police officer](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/watch-new-rochelle-police-officer-holds-teens-at-gunpoint-over-a-snowball-fight/) WTF. ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/711 "2015-02-01T21:00:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I hope that non-U.S. Dopers will comment on whether such abuses are common in other countries. Thailand is notorious for police abuses, yet I know of zero such examples around where I live. British police are not (routinely) armed but armed police are deployed on occasion and a “recent” case (begins in 2011 but is still in the news) was Mark Duggan: > **[Killing of Mark Duggan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Mark_Duggan)** > > Mark Duggan, a 29-year-old black British man, was shot dead by police in Tottenham, North London on 4 August 2011. The Metropolitan Police stated that officers were attempting to arrest Duggan on suspicion of planning an attack and that he was in possession of a handgun. Duggan died from a gunshot wound to the chest. The circumstances of Duggan's death resulted in public protests in Tottenham, which led to conflict with police and escalated into riots across London and other English cities. Du... His story has many parallels with recent US events. A young black Londoner who was probably a career criminal - his supporters deny that - and has career criminals in his wider family (but is that relevant?) was being specifically followed by armed police who suspected he was planning a major crime. Fearing he was about to start violence at any moment, armed police moved toward the vehicle he was in to arrest him and shots were fired (only by the police) and Duggan died after being shot in the arm and chest. A police officer was injured by the bullet that passed through Duggan’s arm. That was August 2011. There were lurid accounts - later rejected - from some witnesses it was an execution with Duggan held down by the police before being shot. Police insisted they thought he was reaching for a gun and indeed a gun was recovered - perhaps 6m (20 feet) from the vehicle Duggan was in. Inevitably there were accounts the police planted the gun some time later although there is no real evidence of that. But the distance of the gun is suggestive that perhaps Duggan had discarded it BEFORE being shot. Protests started in London and then elsewhere across Britain which soon became riots and looting. Most parties (including the family of Duggan) were critical of the behaviour of the rioters and it is widely held they were simply opportunist thieves, thugs and general low life scum. Thousands were involved across Britian and they were front page news as buildings were burned - usually buildings with no particular connection to the authorities. There were at least 1,500 convictions after the riots and it was noted most of the guilty had three or more previous convictions, at least 41% were white, most were male and most were young. There were convictions for looting from shops but also street muggings and sexual attacks. The investigation of the shooting went slowly through the legal system and in January 2015 a verdict was finally delivered (by an 8 - 2 majority) the police were justified in shooting Duggan. In such cases the officers involved (unless found guilty) have their identity kept secret - the officers were only, publicly, identified as V59 and W70 and so on. But in yet another twist the legal authorities have in the last few days revealed they have simply lost a CD of evidence possibly containing details such as the police (and other witnesses) identity. There is no suggestion of corruption though. This highly sensitive data was just being sent in the normal post and the package was lost… But in very general terms the case matches the recent US case in Ferguson: Black criminal shot, riots break out, clear evidence the police weren’t perfect but wild accusations against the police for which there is no evidence at all. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/712 "2015-02-02T08:47:08Z")
You missed an important police action: Police “Dark PR” dept calls their mates in the tabloids and gets them to slander the victim. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/713 "2015-02-02T11:10:53Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > British police are not (routinely) armed but armed police are deployed on occasion and a “recent” case (begins in 2011 but is still in the news) was Mark Duggan: > > [Killing of Mark Duggan - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Mark_Duggan) > > His story has many parallels with recent US events. > > A young black Londoner who was probably a career criminal - his supporters deny that - and has career criminals in his wider family (but is that relevant?) was being specifically followed by armed police who suspected he was planning a major crime. Fearing he was about to start violence at any moment, armed police moved toward the vehicle he was in to arrest him and shots were fired (only by the police) and Duggan died after being shot in the arm and chest. A police officer was injured by the bullet that passed through Duggan’s arm. That was August 2011. > > There were lurid accounts - later rejected - from some witnesses it was an execution with Duggan held down by the police before being shot. Police insisted they thought he was reaching for a gun and indeed a gun was recovered - perhaps 6m (20 feet) from the vehicle Duggan was in. Inevitably there were accounts the police planted the gun some time later although there is no real evidence of that. But the distance of the gun is suggestive that perhaps Duggan had discarded it BEFORE being shot. > > Protests started in London and then elsewhere across Britain which soon became riots and looting. Most parties (including the family of Duggan) were critical of the behaviour of the rioters and it is widely held they were simply opportunist thieves, thugs and general low life scum. Thousands were involved across Britian and they were front page news as buildings were burned - usually buildings with no particular connection to the authorities. > > There were at least 1,500 convictions after the riots and\*\* it was noted most of the guilty had three or more previous convictions, \*\*at least 41% were white, most were male and most were young. There were convictions for looting from shops but also street muggings and sexual attacks. > > The investigation of the shooting went slowly through the legal system and in January 2015 a verdict was finally delivered (by an 8 - 2 majority) the police were justified in shooting Duggan. > > In such cases the officers involved (unless found guilty) have their identity kept secret - the officers were only, publicly, identified as V59 and W70 and so on. But in yet another twist the legal authorities have in the last few days revealed they have simply lost a CD of evidence possibly containing details such as the police (and other witnesses) identity. There is no suggestion of corruption though. This highly sensitive data was just being sent in the normal post and the package was lost… > > But in very general terms the case matches the recent US case in Ferguson: Black criminal shot, riots break out, clear evidence the police weren’t perfect but wild accusations against the police for which there is no evidence at all. > > TCMF-2L His death does have many parallels in that he wasn’t a complete innocent, but certainly there was no attempt to claim he was shooting at the police when he was shot. Even him reaching for a gun seems far-fetched. Do you have a cite for the bit I bolded? Because I remember things like [the youg man jailed for stealing water](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8695988/London-riots-Lidl-water-thief-jailed-for-six-months.html), and he had no prior criminal record and admitted his theft but got sent to jail for six months because of the background of the riots (there was no suggestion he’d been rioting or had damaged property - it was just that his extremely trivial theft occurred during a riot). If he got sent down for six months then the others, with criminal records, must have got sent down for far longer, but I don’t recall hearing about them. So if a third of the jailed already had criminal records, I’d be interested to see a cite for that, especially if it states what those criminal records were for. ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/714 "2015-02-02T11:47:32Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Do you have a cite for the bit I bolded? … This BBC account: > **[England riots lead to 1,500 convictions so far](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17141883)** > > Almost 1,500 people have been convicted of crimes relating to the riots in English cities last summer. Quotes “_Previous figures from the government have shown that approximately 13% of those involved in the disturbances were defined as gang members and three-quarters of all those who had appeared in court had a previous conviction or caution_.” This Guardian account: > **[Three-quarters charged over riots had previous criminal convictions](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/sep/15/three-quarters-rioters-criminal-convictions)** > > Riots data reveals a quarter of those in court had been in prison before, but also shows sentences are tougher than usual Quotes "\*The official statistics, released on Thursday, back up claims by the justice secretary, Kenneth Clarke, that a “hardcore of the criminal classes” were involved in the riots, with 73% of those put before the courts having previous criminal convictions – and one third of that number having served a prison sentence before. Those with criminal records have an average of 15 offences each. Overall, 26% had served time in prison previously.\*" The statistics were widely reported although that could be “Dark PR”. However both the “Establishment” (pro-police) and the Duggan supporters have condemned the actions of the rioters. Both sides appear to agree the rioters were no more than opportunist criminals latching on to concerns over the Duggan affair. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/715 "2015-02-02T12:06:13Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > [A 70 year old Seattle man was arrested for walking while black](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2015/01/28/seattle-police-jailed-elderly-man-for-walking-in-seattle-while-black) when the cop falsely claims he threatened her with a golf club when clearly no such incident was caught by the dashcam. The arresting officer has been reassigned to desk duty: > [@](#): > > In a written statement Thursday, [Police Chief] O’Toole said she was “shocked and disappointed” on Wednesday to read Whitlatch’s comments. She reassigned the officer to desk duty, where she would have no interaction with the public, pending a review of her cases, and asked the Office of Professional Accountability to launch an independent investigation. [http://huff.to/1JU87Ef](http://huff.to/1JU87Ef) ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/716 "2015-02-02T12:34:42Z")
The exact quote I used previously “_it was noted most of the guilty had three or more previous convictions_” which I am CERTAIN I saw somewhere is proving elusive to find so I will withdraw it rather than try to defend a weak position. However here are the bald, official Government statistics on the rioting which seem the most reliable to use: [www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06099.pdf](http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06099.pdf) They quote in part • 71% of adult males facing prosecution had at least one previous conviction compared to 28% of the general male population aged 18-52; • 45% of males aged 10-17 facing prosecution had at least one previous conviction compared to 2% of the general male population aged 10-17. But as noted the riots became a little “all purpose” and there were plenty of headline grabbing middle class and supposedly “respectable” people arrested included females. The Daily Mail mentions some of those cases in their report: > **[One in four rioters had at least TEN convictions, shocking new figures show](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2037692/England-riots-2011-1-4-looters-TEN-convictions.html)** > > Three quarters of those who appeared in court over rioting had previously had at least one caution or conviction, according to Ministry of Justice figures. Quote: _Despite the fact that most rioters have now been shown to have been experienced criminals, media attention focussed on more unlikely middle-class looters. Among the first rioters to go through the courts were former grammar-school student Laura Johnson and aspiring social worker Natasha Reid, as well as a lifeguard, an organic chef and a Baptist Church mentor to young people._ Note this account begins with Quote: _A quarter of those charged with involvement in the riots which swept English cities this summer had more than 10 prior convictions. And three in four of those who appeared in court over rioting had previously had at least one caution or conviction, according to Ministry of Justice figures._ TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/717 "2015-02-02T12:57:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Teens throwing snowballs at each other are held at gunpoint by a police officer](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/watch-new-rochelle-police-officer-holds-teens-at-gunpoint-over-a-snowball-fight/) > > WTF. Not exactly. > **[‘There was no snowball fight’: Video showing New Rochelle police officer...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/02/01/there-was-no-snowball-fight-video-showing-new-rochelle-police-officer-pulling-gun-on-teens-not-what-it-seems-cops/)** > > A video that appears to catch a New Rochelle police officer pointing a gun at a group of teenagers who were having a snowball fight — and went viral on the Internet — is not what it app… ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/718 "2015-02-02T13:03:57Z")
I would also add that I mentioned the Duggan London, UK shooting to show the comparisons with (most specifically) the Brown shooting in Ferguson, USA. Duggan was black (mixed race but dark skinned?) and both “sides” will claim race was a factor. There are those who will highlight Police racism (which in the UK will mean mentioning the Lawrence case where a young black man was randomly murdered in the street by passing racist white thugs and the police bungled the investigation.) However, just as in the USA, there is a lot of violent black on black crime in the UK. Indeed ironically (is that the correct word here?) Duggan was being followed by the “Operation Trident” police who are specifically trying to combat organised drug crime, gun crime and they have an emphasis on Black on Black crime. Next up comes Duggan’s criminality. Opinions here range from his family claiming he had no convictions, that he was a hard working family man and upstanding member of the community. The middle ground has accusations of fecklessness (multiple children by multiple mothers), previous convictions for drugs and theft and also arrests (but crucially no charges) for serious offences including murder. Plus he had family and friends with established criminal records and photographs were released showing him posing with convicted murderers. The other extreme has Duggan as a high level drug dealer, a crime boss who - on the day he was shot - was on the way to execute someone to avenge the murder of a cousin. Just like Brown has been described as anything from an innocent High School child to a hulking violent mountain of a man. The exact details of the incident are vague. As with Brown there are reports of a deliberate and completely unnecessary police execution. But the most likely truth is he did have a gun in his possession in the moments BEFORE he was shot. More importantly the police believed he had a gun which will have obviously shaped their attitudes and actions. But what happened in the moment of his death? Who knows? Those who were there are not believed. Like with Brown, Duggan’s death led to demonstrations which were highjacked and used as a springboard by opportunists for personal gain. For me the interest is the similarities in the cases. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/719 "2015-02-04T00:37:50Z")
Let’s compare and contrast, shall we? [11-year-old girl shoots home invader with a shotgun](http://freebeacon.com/culture/11-year-old-girl-uses-shotgun-to-save-herself-from-home-invader/) [11-year-old girl pinned to the floor and held at gunpoint by police officers entering a home without permission](http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/groveland-officers-accused-using-excessive-force-1/nj2Cp/) ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/720 "2015-02-04T04:13:59Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not exactly. > > [‘There was no snowball fight’: Video showing New Rochelle police officer pulling gun on teens not what it seems: cops – New York Daily News](http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/westchester-pulls-gun-teens-snowball-fight-article-1.2099426#bmb=1) Are you assuming the cops’ version is the more accurate version? Because cops are known to lie to protect themselves. Would you like some cites on that claim I just made? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=37)