# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 360
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7181 "2015-11-25T20:56:16Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Ok color me confused. Please detail who you think deleted this video, when they did it, why they did, and how they did it. If their system works the way I believe it does based on my experience in the industry, it could only have been deleted by someone with access to the remote server, possibly the district manager. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7182 "2015-11-25T21:06:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If their system works the way I believe it does based on my experience in the industry, it could only have been deleted by someone with access to the remote server, possibly the district manager. So I ask again, what is your experience. Do you work in the industry _now_? Is it possible that this particular Burger King uses a system that you are not familiar with? I mean, I suppose it is possible that new account is incorrect. Maybe the reporter misunderstood what he\she was told. But I have their professional rep vs anonymous internet person right now. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7183 "2015-11-25T21:11:43Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > So I ask again, what is your experience. Do you work in the industry _now_? I left fast food in 2011. I work in grocery now and the surveillance system my current employer uses is similar (just on a larger scale). > [@](#): > > Is it possible that this particular Burger King uses a system that you are not familiar with? Short of asking someone who works at that particular location I cannot be 100% certain, but I doubt that it is very different or that anyone at the store level has the ability to delete footage. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7184 "2015-11-25T21:16:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If their system works the way I believe it does based on my experience in the industry, it could only have been deleted by someone with access to the remote server, possibly the district manager. You didn’t answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7185 "2015-11-25T21:26:16Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You didn’t answer the question. I cannot say with certainty who did. I can say that I’m fairly certain the cops _didn’t_. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7186 "2015-11-25T21:45:12Z")
The district manager could have deleted it as a favor to the cops. He sees the cops as the good guys, protecting his business. He sees the victim as a criminal, a problem to be solved. The whole thing is just bad luck, and the cops didn’t mean to cross the line, they are good hardworking guys with tough jobs, and this other guy is just a POS anyway. This is basically the made-up mind of most passively racist white people every time these stories emerge. You wonder how blatant it has to be before some of these people say, that’s not good. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7187 "2015-11-25T22:12:14Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > The district manager could have deleted it as a favor to the cops. He sees the cops as the good guys, protecting his business. He sees the victim as a criminal, a problem to be solved. The whole thing is just bad luck, and the cops didn’t mean to cross the line, they are good hardworking guys with tough jobs, and this other guy is just a POS anyway. The BK was 300 feet away from where the shooting occurred. _Everyone_ involved, including the prosecution and the family of the deceased, agree that the shooting did not take place within sight of the BK’s cameras. What do you think was on that camera that showed the police “crossing the line”? > [@](#): > > This is basically the made-up mind of most passively racist white people every time these stories emerge. This has nothing to do with racism. The race of the people involved is a red herring. > [@](#): > > You wonder how blatant it has to be before some of these people say, that’s not good. When actual racism or misuse of police power starts occurring. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7188 "2015-11-25T22:19:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Also, upon further research, [the Burger King in question closes at midnight](http://www.bk.com/restaurants/il/chicago/4060-south-pulaski-road-10366.html), so the idea that the cops were hanging around in its office for “three hours” after a shooting that took place at 10 PM _while management was not present_ becomes that much more unlikely. Do you have _any idea_ how long it’s going to take for me to purge the mental image of the hissy fit you would throw if some fast-food minion were so disrespectful to the police as to throw them out the moment the second hand of the clock hit closing time? I mean, we’re talking a spectacle that would make the Joker hearing that somebody _else_ had offed Batman look like a model of sanity and restraint… ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7189 "2015-11-25T22:29:13Z")
> [@smapti](#): > > this has nothing to do with racism. The race of the people involved is a red herring. lol. > [@smapti](#): > > when actual racism or misuse of police power starts occurring. lol. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7190 "2015-11-25T22:45:26Z")
That there are such evidentiary problems gives great weight to making police body cams and police vehicle cams mandatory at times, and the data being stored each shift, and data being surrendered to an independent investigatory body whenever there is an incident or complaint. anything short of this smells of systemic cover-up ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7191 "2015-11-25T23:33:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The BK was 300 feet away from where the shooting occurred. _Everyone_ involved, including the prosecution and the family of the deceased, agree that the shooting did not take place within sight of the BK’s cameras. What do you think was on that camera that showed the police “crossing the line”? > . The victim’s family said it would show the events leading up the shooting. Which is exactly what the officers did not want anyone to see. Even if you don’t believe they erased that portion of the video, you gotta admit that it’s a coincidence that strains credibility. Also, from the cite: > [@](#): > > After the shooting, according to Jay Darshane, the District Manager for Burger King, four to five police officers wearing blue and white shirts entered the restaurant and asked to view the video and were given the password to the equipment. Three hours later they left, he said. > > The next day, when an investigator from the Independent Police Review Authority asked to view the security footage, it was discovered that the 86 minutes of video was missing. > \<\\> > But according to Darshane, both the cameras and video recorder were all on and working properly the night of the shooting. So what happened? One of the detectives, he believes, deleted the files. > “We had no idea they were going to sit there and delete files,” Darshane said. “I mean we were just trying to help the police officers.” This is the District Manager of Burger King. Although the article doesn’t state directly (and this is an example of poor reporting), his quote indicates that he, himself, was there at the time. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7192 "2015-11-25T23:34:32Z")
**smapti** , get help. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7193 "2015-11-25T23:43:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I left fast food in 2011. I work in grocery now and the surveillance system my current employer uses is similar (just on a larger scale). Since 2011, Windows has released 2 different operating systems and 4 different internet browsers. JAVA has released new versions about a dozen times. Hell, Apple releases a new iTunes version nearly every week! You don’t think surveillance systems have done some upgrades? To say the technology does not allow a user to delete 86 minutes of video at the site it was it recorded seems far-fetched. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7194 "2015-11-26T15:15:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I cannot say with certainty who did. I can say that I’m fairly certain the cops _didn’t_. So, what is your opinion on situations where the cops _did delete_ video, as shown in my link upthread? Again: [Footage Of Maryland Student’s Beating Goes Missing, Re-Appears Minus Some “Editing”](http://deadspin.com/5522419/footage-of-maryland-students-beating-goes-missing-re-appears-minus-some-editing) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7195 "2015-11-26T17:00:36Z")
So, according to Smapti, the district manager could have done it but no one else. According to the actual district manager, the cops could and did delete the footage. Hmm. Who to believe. …the guy who has experience in the fast food industry, albeit not for several years, our the actual DM who has experience with that equipment and restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7196 "2015-11-26T17:04:16Z")
Investigator fired for refusing to change reports that found that [Chicago cops were at fault for shooting and killing black civilians.](http://melanoidnation.org/investigator-fired-for-not-covering-up-police-shootings-in-chicago/) > [@](#): > > [Independent Police Review Authority] boss Scot Ando told Davis to reverse his findings, and when Davis refused, he was let go. > > “He made it clear that supervisors there serve at his pleasure,” Davis said. “He doesn’t have to have a reason to fire us.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7197 "2015-11-26T17:27:04Z")
Well, then, maybe he didn’t! Maybe he had no reason at all, just in a pissy mood! Didn’t have to have a reason, so maybe he didn’t have one! Or just not that one! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7198 "2015-11-26T17:43:08Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > So, what is your opinion on situations where the cops _did delete_ video, as shown in my link upthread? > > Again: [Footage Of Maryland Student’s Beating Goes Missing, Re-Appears Minus Some “Editing”](http://deadspin.com/5522419/footage-of-maryland-students-beating-goes-missing-re-appears-minus-some-editing) “The cops” didn’t delete footage in that video. A college employee who had direct access to the server as part of her job duties did. You know, kinda like the BK district manager would have had. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7199 "2015-11-26T17:58:19Z")
> [@](#): > > [@Smapti](#): > > “The cops” didn’t delete footage in that video. A college employee who had direct access to the server as part of her job duties did. > > You know, kinda like the BK district manager would have had. No, If you read the article, the college “employee” was a University of Maryland campus cop who was married to an officer in the video in question. > [@](#): > > The officer who oversees the video surveillance system at the University of Maryland is married to one of cops in video. A cop who McKenna was falsely accused of attacking, before the first video showed that was a lie. > > “In another bizarre coincidence, the campus police official in charge of the video surveillance system, Lt. Joanne Ardovini, is married to one of the National Capital Park police mounted officers who was named in the complaint Prince George’s County police filed against McKenna.” So, “Lt. Joanne Ardovini” of the UMCP police dept. is just a “college employee”. You are pathological when it comes to this kind of shit. [U-Md. officials seek inquiry of campus video in beating case](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/20/AR2010042005093.html) > [@](#): > > The university police lieutenant in charge of copying the videos, Joanne Ardovini, is married to John Ardovini, one of the officers on horseback said to have been assaulted by McKenna and Donat. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7200 "2015-11-26T18:07:58Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > No, If you read the article, the college “employee” was a University of Maryland campus cop who was married to an officer in the video in question. “Campus” being the operative word, not “cop”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=359) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=361)