# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 361
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7201 "2015-11-26T18:17:57Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > You are pathological when it comes to this kind of shit. > > [U-Md. officials seek inquiry of campus video in beating case](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/20/AR2010042005093.html) Just to bring **Smapti’s** dysfunction home: [U-Md. officials seek inquiry of campus video in beating case](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/20/AR2010042005093.html) It’s the _Washington Post_ that got this wrong (ya know, the paper that broke Watergate): > [@](#): > > University of Maryland officials have asked Maryland State Police to investigate why university video footage, subpoenaed by lawyers on behalf of a student who was beaten by Prince George’s County police, was not immediately turned over to the lawyers – and why a portion of the video is missing. > > … > > Prosecutors dropped charges against McKenna and Donat. Four county police officers have been suspended in connection with the incident, which is being investigated by the FBI, the state’s attorney’s office and police internal affairs personnel. > > The university police lieutenant in charge of copying the videos, Joanne Ardovini, is married to John Ardovini, one of the officers on horseback said to have been assaulted by McKenna and Donat. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7202 "2015-11-26T18:21:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Campus” being the operative word, not “cop”. Pathetic response. They have guns, badges, and police powers. Face it. You’re wrong about them being cops. Do you need a link? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7203 "2015-11-26T18:39:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Campus” being the operative word, not “cop”. I work at a public university. The “campus cops” assigned to our campus are sworn officers, they carry guns, they have standard police authority and powers of arrest, and they have duties and responsibilities that are basically identical to non-campus cops. Many of them have served on non-campus police forces before transferring, and others leave to go to other police departments. The only difference is that their main area of operations is on and around the campus itself. They are regular cops, by any definition of the term. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7204 "2015-11-26T18:43:35Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Pathetic response. > > They have guns, badges, and police powers. > > Face it. You’re wrong about them being cops. Do you need a link? The key question is whether Smapti wants to suck them off or not. Would he blow just a campus employee? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7205 "2015-11-26T18:43:39Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I work at a public university. > > The “campus cops” assigned to our campus are sworn officers, they carry guns, they have standard police authority and powers of arrest, and they have duties and responsibilities that are basically identical to non-campus cops. Many of them have served on non-campus police forces before transferring, and others leave to go to other police departments. The only difference is that their main area of operations is on and around the campus itself. > > They are regular cops, by any definition of the term. But… but… but, a _ **Real** _ police officer wouldn’t delete video!!! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7206 "2015-11-26T18:44:10Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > [U-Md. officials seek inquiry of campus video in beating case](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/20/AR2010042005093.html) > > It’s the _Washington Post_ that got this wrong (ya know, the paper that broke Watergate): You could have gone with the followup about how [one of the officers was found not guilty and the second one’s wrongful conviction was overturned](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/former-prince-georges-officer-convicted-of-beating-u-md-student-can-clear-record/2014/09/28/226dbf20-442a-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html). Frankly, there was no need for the lieutenant (who, by the way, was never charged with any wrongdoing and has since been promoted and runs the campus’ police academy) to tamper with the video, since it clearly shows the police did the right thing anyway. PS: Upon further review, _some_ University of Maryland College Park police officers are sworn officers under state law. I regret the error. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7207 "2015-11-26T18:44:32Z")
> **[About UMPD - University of Maryland Police](http://www.umpd.umd.edu/about/)** > > Information about the University of Maryland Police Department > [@](#): > > The University of Maryland Police Department is a professional law enforcement organization that employs over 100 dedicated men and women. These individuals provide a complete array of law enforcement and related services to our community of approximately 60,000 members, which includes a student population of approximately 32,700. > > Our police officers are State certified in accordance with Article 41, Section 4-201 of the Annotated Code of Maryland and **have all the same powers and authority as any other sworn police officer in Maryland** ; each officer is empowered by State law to make arrests, investigate crimes, and carry firearms. Furthermore, the University of Maryland Police Force is the primary agency responsible for policing property owned, operated, leased by, or under the control of the University of Maryland System. Bolding is mine. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7208 "2015-11-26T18:49:28Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The key question is whether Smapti wants to suck them off or not. Would he blow just a campus employee? Keep in mind that an oral compulsion can be a very endearing characteristic. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7209 "2015-11-26T18:49:30Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The key question is whether Smapti wants to suck them off or not. Would he blow just a campus employee? Only if he could stroke the barrel of their gun while doing it. No gun–not a cop–and no BJ. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7210 "2015-11-26T18:52:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You could have gone with the followup about how one of the officers was found not guilty and the second one’s wrongful conviction was overturned Yeah. There was some local outrage about that. Doesn’t change the fact that video was deleted by a “cop”. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7211 "2015-11-26T18:54:01Z")
Why does it take four or five Chicago cops to view a video? Use Steve Wilkos as an example of your basic Chicago cop. How do you get four or five of him into a fast-food restaurant manager’s office, which usually have room for only a small desk and two chairs? Or was the overflow used to block the entrance and intimidate the curious? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7212 "2015-11-26T18:56:39Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Yeah. There was some local outrage about that. Doesn’t change the fact that video was deleted by a “cop”. There seems to be some dispute as to that “fact”, seeing as she was never charged with a crime or disciplined in any way. > [@dropzone](#): > > Why does it take four or five Chicago cops to view a video? Use Steve Wilkos as an example of your basic Chicago cop. How do you get four or five of him into a fast-food restaurant manager’s office, which usually have room for only a small desk and two chairs? Or was the overflow used to block the entrance and intimidate the curious? Probably because it never happened the way the district manager claims it did. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7213 "2015-11-26T19:04:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > There seems to be some dispute as to that “fact”, seeing as she was never charged with a crime or disciplined in any way. You seem incapable of recognizing the fact that cops cover for each other. Amazing, really. Do you dispute that video was missing? How, in your professional opinion, did that occur? Apply Occam’s Razor, please. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7214 "2015-11-26T19:11:15Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Do you dispute video was missing? How, in your professional opinion, did that occur? Apply Occam’s Razor, please. I do not dispute that video was “missing”. However, if you’d done any research, you’d have found that [the video wasn’t deleted - the video never _existed in the first place_ because the camera wasn’t pointing in the right direction at the time, and moreover that Ardovini had specifically recused herself from the process because of her relationship to the officer.](http://www.diamondbackonline.com/article_d0bc608c-b4d9-59d9-a332-a28e82679692.html?TNNoMobile) ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7215 "2015-11-26T19:21:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I do not dispute that video was “missing”. However, if you’d done any research, you’d have found that [the video wasn’t deleted - the video never _existed in the first place_ because the camera wasn’t pointing in the right direction at the time, and moreover that Ardovini had specifically recused herself from the process because of her relationship to the officer.](http://www.diamondbackonline.com/article_d0bc608c-b4d9-59d9-a332-a28e82679692.html?TNNoMobile) Your link is to the student campus paper, not a source like the _Washington Post_–which may be more objective, and it includes this: > [@](#): > > Sharon Weidenfeld, a private investigator working for students arrested at the riot, saw the excerpt and feels the university was too selective in the information it disclosed. > > “I think it is important for the university to release the actual investigation done by the Maryland State Police,” Weidenfeld said. McKenna’s attorney, Terrell N. Roberts, has also filed records requests for the full report. He and Weidenfeld said they could say little without having seen it, but Roberts said he remains suspicious. > > \*\*“I find it strange that the technician failed to supply footage of the key location where the McKenna beating took place,” said Roberts. > \*\* > As Dillon described it, one department technician failed to burn the subpoenaed footage onto a DVD for McKenna’s lawyers before it was automatically taped over by new material from the camera. > > This error would normally have been caught instantly, Dillon said, but in this case, he said the technician’s supervisor — Lt. Joanne Ardovini — had removed herself from the process to avoid a potential conflict of interest: Her husband, Prince George’s County Police Officer John Ardovini, was involved in arresting McKenna on assault charges. [my bold] Oh! This makes it OK! Because the cops always tell the truth! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7216 "2015-11-26T19:26:43Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Your link is to the student campus paper, not a source like the _Washington Post_–which may be more objective… [The Post cited the student newspaper in its editorial about the case,](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/29/no-accountability/) and it includes this; > [@](#): > > A subsequent Maryland State Police investigation also concluded that there was no evidence of a coverup. > [@](#): > > Oh! This makes it OK! Because the cops always tell the truth! There is no evidence in this instance that they did not. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7217 "2015-11-26T19:44:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [The Post cited the student newspaper in its editorial about the case,](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/29/no-accountability/) and it includes this; > > There is no evidence in this instance that they did not. Did you read your own link? Nice cherry picking. It’s the same campus paper article. The first paragraphs of your new link: > [@](#): > > ``` > IN PRINCE George’s County, it is now clear that the police, without provocation, can beat an unarmed young student senseless — with impunity. They can blatantly lie about it — with impunity. They can stonewall and cover it up for months — with impunity. They can express no remorse and offer no apology — with impunity. > > The agent of this travesty of justice, and this impunity, is Judge Beverly J. Woodard of the Prince George’s County Circuit Court. Judge Woodard has presided in the case involving John J. McKenna, a young University of Maryland student who was savagely beaten by two baton-wielding Prince George’s cops in March 2010, following a men’s basketball game on the College Park campus. > > The beating of Mr. McKenna was videotaped; had it not been, the police, who filed no report and then falsely claimed that he instigated the incident and attacked them, may never have been investigated or charged. Yet despite the fact that a jury convicted one of the police officers, James Harrison Jr., of assault nearly two years ago, Judge Woodard has now thrown the verdict out and closed the case. > > The judge offered no explanation for her actions … . > > There were dozens of witnesses, including police. Yet what followed was an official wall of silence, dishonesty and denial from the department. Mr. McKenna’s injuries, the police initially said, were sustained when he was kicked by a horse. > > The cops’ story fell apart when the video surfaced, but even then their stonewalling continued. For months, no one would identify the officers in riot gear who were shown beating Mr. McKenna. > > It was only due to the persistence of Mr. McKenna’s lawyers that the cover-up and lies were shredded. At trial, in late 2012, a jury convicted Mr. Harrison on a felony charge of assault. Another officer, Reginald Baker, was acquitted, although he, too, used his baton to beat Mr. McKenna as he lay stunned and defenseless on the ground. > > Judge Woodard conducted herself unprofessionally at trial. She failed to disclose an apparent conflict of interest — she had been previously married to a Prince George’s officer who himself was convicted for brutality — until asked about it by a journalist. In court, she exhibited what many observers regarded as overt hostility toward Mr. McKenna, the victim. > > ``` > > Even if the charge had stuck, it’s rather paltry, given the transgressions here. Surely a citizen accused of similar crimes would have been hit with more severe charges. That even the misdemeanor conviction didn’t stick makes this all the more outrageous. > > But there’s also a bit more to this story. There should have been security camera footage of McKenna’s beating. McKenna’s attorneys subpoenaed some 60 hours of video from campus cameras. But curiously missing was the 90 minutes of video from the camera that should have been pointed at the area where McKenna was beaten. Campus police claimed it had already been recorded over. The video was recovered, thanks to a copy recorded by another campus police officer, but the recovered video revealed that the camera had mysteriously been pointed in another direction. > > As it turns out, the officer in charge of the campus security video system, Lt. Joanne Ardovini, is married to one of the officers named in the police report about McKenna. If you think that’s all rather convenient, you aren’t alone. Campus police officials then claimed that the video went missing because Ardovini was just _too darned conscientious_. [italics and underlined are the link back to the campus paper story] Yep. Your link totally vindicates that there’s no police misconduct. Keep up the good fight, **Smapti**. Apply Occam’s Razor. Is the explanation that A) a cop with means, motive, and opportunity erased video showing her husband in a controversial incident or B) video was erased but only the time frame covering the incident and that the camera wasn’t pointed in the right direction (according to who?), anyways? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7218 "2015-11-26T19:52:32Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Did you read your own link? Nice cherry picking. It’s the same campus paper article. The first paragraphs of your new link: > > [italics and underlined are the link back to the campus paper story] That was the _point_. That’s what I _said_ in the post you think you’re so cleverly rebutting. The Post deems the student paper’s article to be accurate enough to cite it in their editorial. Is it your opinion that the Post’s editorial staff are stupid to cite an article which is so obviously inaccurate, or is it your opinion that the Post’s editorial staff are in on the cover-up by citing an article they know is inaccurate? > [@](#): > > Apply Occam’s Razor. Is the explanation that A) a cop with means, motive, and opportunity erased video showing her husband in a controversial incident or B) video was erased but only the time frame covering the incident and that the camera wasn’t pointed in the right direction (according to who?), anyways? Neither, since you’re misrepresenting the facts in both situations - B is not accurate because it is impossible to “erase” a video that never existed to begin with and because the “who” (the campus police and the state police investigations) has already been established, and A is not accurate because Andovini had recused herself from the investigation and had neither the means nor opportunity to alter the video (which didn’t exist in the first place). You’re not arguing this in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7219 "2015-11-26T19:58:02Z")
So they erased footage that didn’t exist? > [@](#): > > You’re not arguing this in good faith. Oh! The irony. Thank you. That was a great laugh. Have a Happy Turkey Day, **Smapti**! ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7220 "2015-11-27T00:12:30Z")
So, new dashcam video has been released related to the shooting of Laquan McDonald. Here is a compilation of the now 5 videos. Here’s an odd thing - sirens can be heard, but no audio of the officers. It’s long (40 minutes) and consists of mostly nothing. But one of them does show the victim running past the BK. > **[WARNING: New dash-cam video from night of Laquan McDonald shooting](https://abc7chicago.com/laquan-mcdonald-video-new-shooting/1147149/)** > > GRAPHIC VIDEO: This video shows Laquan McDonald, 17, being shot by a Chicago police officer in October 2014. Viewer discretion is advised. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=360) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=362)