# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 364
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7261 "2015-12-02T17:44:22Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > [Leaked Documents Reveal Dothan Police Department Planted Drugs on Young Black Men For Years](http://henrycountyreport.com/blog/2015/12/01/leaked-documents-reveal-dothan-police-department-planted-drugs-on-young-black-men-for-years-district-attorney-doug-valeska-complicit/) Now, this is what _actual_ police racism looks like, as opposed to the imagined racism most of you have been tilting at for the past year. If these allegations are true, these men are little more than traitors to their country and deserve a traitor’s fate. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7262 "2015-12-02T17:45:06Z")
Smapti, what about the fact that what the cops claimed on the night of the shooting is not what happened in reality? Does this not bother you? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7263 "2015-12-02T17:57:07Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Smapti, what about the fact that what the cops claimed on the night of the shooting is not what happened in reality? Human memory is fallible, especially when it comes to high-stress, high-risk situations like shooting someone, and from watching the video I can see how the officer/s might have believed the suspect was lunging at them. I see no reason to suspect deliberate fabrication. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7264 "2015-12-02T18:40:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I see no reason to suspect deliberate fabrication. Is there any situation where you would? What would it take? Video of a cop shooting a handcuffed suspect and then lying about it (after removing the cuffs and planting a gun, for example)? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7265 "2015-12-02T18:45:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, those screencaps show the Chicago PD _looking_ at a video which didn’t show the shooting. The state attorney says there’s no evidence the police tampered with the files. Moreover, we already know what the video would have shown, thanks to Van Dyke’s dashboard cam - the suspect running away along the sidewalk in front of the BK and the officer briefly driving over the curb to pursue him. To insist that the department hacked a major corporation and tampered with evidence in order to conceal evidence of _a moving violation_, which wasn’t illegal under the circumstances anyway, and which there was also still existing video of from another source, is nothing more than a conspiracy theory. They were with it for 3 hours and ONLY the 86 minutes during the incidence is missing and this doesn’t seem fishy to you? Doesn’t give you just a _little_ pause? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7266 "2015-12-02T18:51:07Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > They were with it for 3 hours and ONLY the 86 minutes during the incidence is missing and this doesn’t seem fishy to you? Doesn’t give you just a _little_ pause? We _know_ what the missing video would have shown, and it isn’t relevant to the shooting and doesn’t incriminate the police in any way. What is their motive for tampering with it? Why does the state attorney, who’s pursuing the prosecution of Van Dyke, agree there’s no evidence of tampering? Why purposefully delete 86 minutes of footage when only about five seconds of it show the suspect and more than half that window is from before the incident began? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7267 "2015-12-02T18:55:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > We _know_ what the missing video would have shown, and it isn’t relevant to the shooting and doesn’t incriminate the police in any way. What is their motive for tampering with it? Why does the state attorney, who’s pursuing the prosecution of Van Dyke, agree there’s no evidence of tampering? Why purposefully delete 86 minutes of footage when only about five seconds of it show the suspect and more than half that window is from before the incident began? Because they are CORRUPT assholes Smapti. How many corrupt ass-hole cops do you need to read about before you realize that there are a LOT of them. The racist jackasses who have ruined lives for decades linked to above, aren’t the only example, not a by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7268 "2015-12-02T19:06:35Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Because they are CORRUPT assholes Smapti. So that’s _all_? They didn’t delete the video because it incriminated them, or because it would cause a negative public reaction, or because of anything that would actually benefit them? They just tampered with the video _for the sake of tampering with it_ because they’re “corrupt assholes”? What do they do on their off-time - trip old ladies in the crosswalk and steal candy from babies? Who’s their commanding officer - Dick Dastardly? You’re not being realistic here. You’re imagining “the cops” as a cartoon caricature that in no way resembles how real people behave. This is how bad guys in pro wrestling behave, not real people with actual motivations for the things they do. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7269 "2015-12-02T19:09:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So that’s _all_? They didn’t delete the video because it incriminated them, or because it would cause a negative public reaction, or because of anything that would actually benefit them? They just tampered with the video _for the sake of tampering with it_ because they’re “corrupt assholes”? What do they do on their off-time - trip old ladies in the crosswalk and steal candy from babies? Who’s their commanding officer - Dick Dastardly? > > You’re not being realistic here. You’re imagining “the cops” as a cartoon caricature that in no way resembles how real people behave. This is how bad guys in pro wrestling behave, not real people with actual motivations for the things they do. What motivated the ass-hat cops planting evidence on people? What was in it for them? They’d be risking their careers just to fuck over some black people? If anyone has a distorted picture of police, it’s you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7270 "2015-12-02T19:11:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Now, this is what _actual_ police racism looks like, as opposed to the imagined racism most of you have been tilting at for the past year. If these allegations are true, these men are little more than traitors to their country and deserve a traitor’s fate. Do you think this is the only department in America with this type of systemic problem? Do you think it’s possible that a very large portion of black Americans have had personal experiences with cops as bad as these, and thus many have a legitimate reason to be extremely distrustful of and act very fearful of police officers? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7271 "2015-12-02T19:26:50Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > What motivated the ass-hat cops planting evidence on people? > > What was in it for them? They’d be risking their careers just to fuck over some black people? “Fucking over some black people” is a far more concrete and human motivation than “they did it because they’re corrupt”. People don’t just commit crimes for the sake of committing crimes because they’re “corrupt” or “evil”; they do it because they stand to gain something, be it property, or protection from criminal charges, or just the sheer thrill of it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7272 "2015-12-02T19:29:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you think this is the only department in America with this type of systemic problem? It’s quite possible that this is the only department in America _which has been systematically infiltrated by a terrorist organization_, yes. > [@](#): > > Do you think it’s possible that a very large portion of black Americans have had personal experiences with cops as bad as these, and thus many have a legitimate reason to be extremely distrustful of and act very fearful of police officers? No, I don’t. The evidence suggests that these kind of events are outliers, not common occurrences. I suspect that the same phenomenon that leads people to think that crime is everywhere these days when in fact crime rates have been dropping for decades is in effect here, and that the way the media reports about these kind of cases leads people to believe they’re far more common than they actually are, thus leading to people having unwarranted fear of police. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7273 "2015-12-02T20:50:57Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > If anyone has a distorted picture of police, it’s you. No shit. It’s fascinatingly bizarre. Instead of Dick Dastardly, **Smapti** thinks just about every cop is as honest as Dudley Do-Right. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7274 "2015-12-02T21:50:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > We _know_ what the missing video would have shown, and it isn’t relevant to the shooting and doesn’t incriminate the police in any way. What is their motive for tampering with it? Why does the state attorney, who’s pursuing the prosecution of Van Dyke, agree there’s no evidence of tampering? Why purposefully delete 86 minutes of footage when only about five seconds of it show the suspect and more than half that window is from before the incident began? How do we know what it would have shown if it’s not there? Honest question. Is there another source, other than the police? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7275 "2015-12-02T22:30:12Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > How do we know what it would have shown if it’s not there? Honest question. Is there another source, other than the police? We have the dash-cam footage from Van Dyke’s car. It was posted earlier in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7276 "2015-12-02T23:02:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s quite possible that this is the only department in America _which has been systematically infiltrated by a terrorist organization_, yes. Through most of American history, would you describe most police departments as operating as terrorist organizations? 'Cause it’s pretty likely that, in the past, this was standard procedure for dealing with black people for many or most departments. > [@](#): > > No, I don’t. The evidence suggests that these kind of events are outliers, not common occurrences. I suspect that the same phenomenon that leads people to think that crime is everywhere these days when in fact crime rates have been dropping for decades is in effect here, and that the way the media reports about these kind of cases leads people to believe they’re far more common than they actually are, thus leading to people having unwarranted fear of police. The evidence doesn’t show this – the evidence shows that this was normal for most of American history, and most black people believe that there’s still a problem, and that police departments don’t keep good records on bad behavior – and thus it’s reasonable to believe that this might still be somewhat widespread. I don’t expect you to understand, since you appear to be constitutionally incapable of reasonable and rationally considering issues related to this topic. I’m sorry for the trauma that you’ve endured that has so warped your mind, and I will continue to urge you to try and consider that you’re no longer capable of reasonable evaluation of these issues. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7277 "2015-12-02T23:12:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > 'Cause it’s pretty likely that, in the past, this was standard procedure for dealing with black people for many or most departments. The past is not now. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7278 "2015-12-02T23:19:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, I don’t. The evidence suggests that these kind of events are outliers, not common occurrences. One third of black American males go to prison. I’m guessing they didn’t have a good experience of dealing with the police ergo black people having bad experiences with the police are not “outliers”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7279 "2015-12-02T23:32:36Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > One third of black American males go to prison. I’m guessing they didn’t have a good experience of dealing with the police ergo black people having bad experiences with the police are not “outliers”. You are deliberately ignoring the context. The outliers I refer to are instances where black people are arrested _fraudulently_. If a black person has a negative experience with a policeman because of a crime they legitimately committed, then they have no one to blame but themselves for the “bad experience” that ensued. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7280 "2015-12-03T02:41:06Z")
**Smapti** , do you actually know any police officers personally in real life? I went to a school in PG county, Md. A force that has been under Dept. of Justice review. My freshman year girlfriend, my soph year roommate, and other fiends became PG Co. cops. One PG cop friend told me never to fuck with PGCo cops because “We looks for fights and we’ll beat your ass 10:1 with nightsticks.” Now, no one has to take this anecdote as evidence. All they need for confirmation is the Maryland student beat down: [Video Catches Cops Brutally Beating Maryland Student After Duke Game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A0n2qMxf0c) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=363) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=365)