# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 371
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7401 "2015-12-12T16:13:19Z")
They smaptied him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7402 "2015-12-12T17:36:43Z")
It also shows the suspect continuing to resist arrest, and walking directly towards the officer after being given repeated chances to save his own neck. Even the camerawoman seems to realize he’s being an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7403 "2015-12-12T17:38:49Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > But in the absence of evidence of a threat, police are free to shoot, tase, or beat people up and you will always give them a pass. I don’t recall “giving a pass” to the officer who shot a man and planted a Taser by his body. Or to the officers committing rape. Or any number of other cases where the police _clearly_ stepped over the line. The problem is with those who have redefined “inappropriate use of force” as “any use of force which is on video and makes me feel bad when I watch it”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7404 "2015-12-12T17:48:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It also shows the suspect continuing to resist arrest, and walking directly towards the officer after being given repeated chances to save his own neck. And that scared the cop so bad he felt he was in fear for his life and safety? What pussies we have on the force now! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7405 "2015-12-12T17:54:31Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > And that scared the cop so bad he felt he was in fear for his life and safety? What pussies we have on the force now! Clearly, only a “pussy” would defend himself when being charged by a man who is armed with a knife, who has already stabbed one person, and who is completely unafraid of several men with guns. You don’t want human beings enforcing the law. You want Robocop. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7406 "2015-12-12T18:00:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Clearly, only a “pussy” would defend himself when being charged by a man who is armed with a knife, who has already stabbed one person, and who is completely unafraid of several men with guns. The video clearly shows no one was charging anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7407 "2015-12-12T18:09:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The video clearly shows no one was charging anyone. So our eyes are lying to us at 0:18 when he starts walking directly in the officer’s direction and doesn’t stop until being shot. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7408 "2015-12-12T18:31:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So our eyes are lying to us at 0:18 when he starts walking directly in the officer’s direction and doesn’t stop until being shot. That is not charging. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7409 "2015-12-12T18:34:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That is not charging. Tell that to a human being who is on an adrenaline rush and is being approached by a man who already stabbed one person and is completely unconcerned that you’re threatening to shoot him, who has a window of about a second or two to decide whether or not he feels like getting stabbed today. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7410 "2015-12-12T18:44:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tell that to a human being who is on an adrenaline rush and is being approached by a man who already stabbed one person and is completely unconcerned that you’re threatening to shoot him, who has a window of about a second or two to decide whether or not he feels like getting stabbed today. If he is incapable of managing his reaction to adrenaline, or, heaven forbid, back away from someone waking toward him, he has no business wearing a badge. Yeah, I know, _“Never give a inch!!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7411 "2015-12-12T18:53:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If he is incapable of managing his reaction to adrenaline So, in other words, the entire human race is disqualified from police service. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7412 "2015-12-12T18:59:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So, in other words, the entire human race is disqualified from police service. Wait a minute didn’t you earlier in this very thread insist that a (non-police of course) person bore responsibility for what happened to him _exactly because_ he failed to manage his reaction to adrenaline when awakened unexpectedly by police officers who had infiltrated his bedroom? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7413 "2015-12-12T19:01:35Z")
I don’t know whether to refer to some Dopers as “he” or “she.” **Smapti** presents no difficulty, however. > [@Smapti](#): > > So our eyes are lying to us at 0:18 when he starts walking directly in the officer’s direction and doesn’t stop until being shot. Is it talking about Mario Woods? If so, it is even more inhuman and stupid than I already knew. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7414 "2015-12-12T19:11:34Z")
Well I have to be honest and say I think this last example is harder for us than some of us are making it out to be. Let me ask this question: When a suspect in a stabbing refuses to drop his knife, and all your non-lethal means have not worked to disarm him, and he begins walking away with the knife in hand, what should you (a group of police officers) do? It seems plausible that you’re going to have to move in front of him to keep him contained. But if he keeps walking towards you, well, he is a suspect with a knife who has been uncooperative who is walking towards you. Yes, you put yourself in front of him, but arguably that’s justified by an imperative to keep him from going anywhere. So, what is to be done? I think it’s well known that intentional attempts to shoot to wound rather than kill are considered to be very unreliable and, for that reason, dangerous to everyone. So, barring that, what can be done? ETA: A hindsight solution, one that we _should_ implement here in the US, is those bulletproof plastic shields used in the UK and some other places. They can be used to contain a knife wielding person in at least some situations (like this one) with a minimized risk to anyone. But of course, those were not available in this particular situation. I’m interested in the question of what these officers, in this particular situation, did that is actually wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7415 "2015-12-12T20:07:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So, in other words, the entire human race is disqualified from police service. …these police [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cznNf2LUk74)seemed to handle the adrenaline just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7416 "2015-12-12T20:24:59Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …these police [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cznNf2LUk74)seemed to handle the adrenaline just fine. Why, it’s almost as if those police were operating in a different country where there weren’t more guns than cars and there wasn’t a pre-existing culture of civilians viewing police as the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7417 "2015-12-12T20:27:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why, it’s almost as if those police were operating in a different country where there weren’t more guns than cars and there wasn’t a pre-existing culture of civilians viewing police as the enemy. …why, it seems like your assertion “the entire human race is disqualified from police service” is entirely and completely incorrect. Glad you could admit that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7418 "2015-12-12T20:34:20Z")
Great, then. So all we have to do is undo 250 years of cultural separation and make America exactly like the UK, and then we won’t have this problem anymore. Easy-peasy, right? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7419 "2015-12-12T20:51:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Great, then. So all we have to do is undo 250 years of cultural separation and make America exactly like the UK, and then we won’t have this problem anymore. > > Easy-peasy, right? …I don’t live in America. I live in NZ: another country where the police are not routinely armed. If when you said "“the entire human race is disqualified from police service” you only meant “America” then you should have said so. And I actually think that it is entirely possible for US police to be on “adrenaline rushes” and not pull the trigger like they did on this video. Because this doesn’t happen all the time in the US and when it does not everyone ends up dead. But when it does happen people are allowed to say “hey, there are other ways that this could have been handled.” Because the only way to “make America closer to the UK” is to have a conversation about it. If you throw up your arms, shrug, and go “these things happen” these things will just keep on happening. I’ve shown you that there are other ways to handle this and you admit that with a different culture change is possible. Do you not think US police could do better? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7420 "2015-12-12T20:59:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I’ve shown you that there are other ways to handle this and you admit that with a different culture change is possible. The problem is that that changing that culture _isn’t_ possible in this country so long as the gun industry is able to continue stoking the paranoid fantasies of white reactionaries so they’ll oppose any and all barriers on unrestricted sales of any and all kinds of firearms to anyone whatsoever. And I don’t see how that’s going to change any time soon, so we have to deal with the fact that our police need to be armed and they need to be prepared to shoot to kill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=370) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=372)