# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 372
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7421 "2015-12-12T21:00:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The orderly function of our society _demands_ that it be so. To insist otherwise is to invite anarchy. This is rather clearly an oxymoron: our social order is dysfunctional. The misbehavior of the various LEAs are symptomatic of that. They fail to deter crime and in many instances seem to act like criminals themselves. And to suggest that the alternative is (chaotic) anarchy is specious, because humans have shown time and time again that they are highly unpredictable. Specious because order vs. anarchy is not a binary positioning, there is a huge gradient between the two. “Anarchy” simply means the absence of hierarchy. The particular hierarchical structure our society currently has seems to be a major source of the problem of criminality, and the police do not appear to be providing a worthwhile offset to that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7422 "2015-12-12T21:03:40Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > This is rather clearly an oxymoron: our social order is dysfunctional. The misbehavior of the various LEAs are symptomatic of that. They fail to deter crime and in many instances seem to act like criminals themselves. Would our society be better tomorrow if nothing were to change except that all law enforcement agencies were disestablished? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7423 "2015-12-12T21:09:32Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Well I have to be honest and say I think this last example is harder for us than some of us are making it out to be. _ **Tasers disable** _ without killing Do you need a cite for that? But I guess tasers are the weapon of choice only against _ **unarmed** _ motorists who show the slowest bit of slowness in lying prone after being stopped for failing to signal. A mentally distraught man with a knife walking _ **slowly** _ “deserves” to have a half-dozen cops all empty their magazines into his center-of-mass. Sheeeeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7424 "2015-12-12T21:22:01Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > _ **Tasers disable** _ without killing Do you need a cite for that? Tasers don’t always work. Do you need a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7425 "2015-12-12T21:27:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Would our society be better tomorrow if nothing were to change except that all law enforcement agencies were disestablished? Is somebody suggesting that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7426 "2015-12-12T21:40:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The problem is that that changing that culture _isn’t_ possible in this country so long as the gun industry is able to continue stoking the paranoid fantasies of white reactionaries so they’ll oppose any and all barriers on unrestricted sales of any and all kinds of firearms to anyone whatsoever. > > And I don’t see how that’s going to change any time soon, so we have to deal with the fact that our police need to be armed and they need to be prepared to shoot to kill. Having armed police with the right to kill for self-defense is entirely compatible with the aims of BLM and others who support just and unbiased law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7427 "2015-12-12T22:58:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Having armed police with the right to kill for self-defense is entirely compatible with the aims of BLM and others who support just and unbiased law enforcement. Then they should probably stop rioting when armed police kill in self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7428 "2015-12-12T23:07:59Z")
How would we bring the citizen/police arms race under control? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7429 "2015-12-12T23:15:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then they should probably stop rioting when armed police kill in self-defense. There have been many, many fewer riots than there have killings by police. So once again, you lie and exaggerate. I don’t expect any more from you, though – I don’t think you’re capable of rationally analyzing these situations. I’m sorry for whatever trauma you endured that has so warped you beyond human decency and reason with regards to authority and law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7430 "2015-12-13T00:10:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > _ **Tasers disable** _ without killing Do you need a cite for that? In the post I made which you’re replying to, I stipulated (as I gathered from the article about what happened) that all available non-lethal means have been tried and failed to work. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7431 "2015-12-13T00:25:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Would our society be better tomorrow if nothing were to change except that all law enforcement agencies were disestablished? I would settle for a special prosecutor who would handle all alleged cases of police misconduct involving violence against suspects. That would result in more convictions of bad cops, and reduce the kind of unjustified violence against citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7432 "2015-12-13T00:48:07Z")
**Smapti** watched a video of police beat the shit out of a kid that never attempted to attack them and concluded that it was self defense and also that the police didn’t injure him, it was a horse. You cannot convince him of anything. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7433 "2015-12-13T01:02:41Z")
He’s like the Black Knight in _Life of Brian_. “You’re arm’s off.” “No it’s not!” … “Look you stupid bastard, you’ve got no arms left.” “Yes I have!” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7434 "2015-12-13T01:18:52Z")
[QUOTE=" [KCPQ Fox 13: Police death ruled homicide, 6 years later] ([Man slammed into wall by King County deputy in 2009 dies; coroner rules it a homicide | FOX 13 Seattle](http://q13fox.com/2015/12/11/christopher-harris-attorney-man-slammed-into-wall-by-deputy-in-2009-dies/))"]SEATTLE (AP) — A man who suffered a catastrophic brain injury after a King County sheriff’s deputy slammed him into concrete wall in 2009 has died. And a Thurston County forensic pathologist has ruled it a homicide… a forensic pathologist performed an autopsy and determined (Sean) Harris died of “acute and chronic pneumonia of the lungs, due to medical sequelae, due to blunt head trauma” and determined that his manner of death was “homicide.” The (Coroner’s) office noted … “homicide … does not mean that the death itself was intentional and it does not mean that a crime necessarily occurred …” [/QUOTE] Video clip on that page shows a football move, but without the pads or helmets. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7435 "2015-12-13T01:55:22Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > **Smapti** watched a video of police beat the shit out of a kid that never attempted to attack them and concluded that it was self defense and also that the police didn’t injure him, it was a horse. You cannot convince him of anything. Well, what are you going to believe? _Video_ of the entire incident or the official police account? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7436 "2015-12-13T16:15:45Z")
Has this one been mentioned? [https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/videos/958507747521477/?pnref=story](https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/videos/958507747521477/?pnref=story) What I see: A cop casually approaching an overturned car, seeing a man climbing out of it, the cop almost _casually_ shooting the guy, then calmly returning the pistol to his holster and continuing towards the car. What do you see? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7437 "2015-12-13T16:31:05Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Has this one been mentioned? > > [https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/videos/958507747521477/?pnref=story](https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/videos/958507747521477/?pnref=story) > > What I see: A cop casually approaching an overturned car, seeing a man climbing out of it, the cop almost _casually_ shooting the guy, then calmly returning the pistol to his holster and continuing towards the car. > > What do you see? And [here we have](https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/12/california-cop-wont-be-charged-for-shooting-man-after-rollover-accident/) the DA’s justification for _not indicting the cop_. It was an accidental shooting, as evidenced by the fact that the cop jerked in surprise at the shot, and by the fact that there was only one shot when by training it should have been two. But this makes no sense. First, watching the video, I see two shots. It appears clear to me. What about you? Second, the “jerking” seems, at best, very open to interpretation. Third: The DA’s theory implies the cop knew he had fired the shot. And this is probably true–it’s further evidenced by the fact that in the longer video can be seen looking for a long time at the ground where he had fired the shot(s)–why would he be looking there unless it was to find the casings for the shots? Yet, knowing he had just fired the shot, he did not call this in, he did not report any of this until an EMT said the guy in the car had been shot. I am not sure where the following information comes from but apparently when the cop asked the guy to climb out of the car the guy said “I can’t, you shot me,” the cop reported this as the guy _refusing_ to exit the vehicle. The guy is paralyzed now from the neck down, probably for life. Even the _best possible spin_ on this for the cop is that he accidentally fired (looks like twice to me) and somehow didn’t realize the shots had actually hit the guy–despite seeing the guy go down. That he didn’t check to see, that he didn’t take seriously the guy’s report that he had been shot, should lead to criminal charges, should it not? And that’s assuming it’s not just a straight up murder. There’s no way this cop is not guilty. And yet, he is not going to be prosecuted. I don’t even know if he lost his job. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7438 "2015-12-13T16:36:31Z")
Here’s a story that is the source of the “I can’t, you shot me” quote. This apparently was reported by the officer himself, to the DA, later on. > **[Paradise officer won’t face charges for shooting DUI suspect](https://www.chicoer.com/2015/12/10/paradise-officer-wont-face-charges-for-shooting-dui-suspect/)** > > Paradise \>\> Paradise police officer Patrick Feaster will not face criminal charges in relation to a Thanksgiving Eve shooting of a suspected drunken driver, Andrew Thomas, as he exited a car … ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7439 "2015-12-13T17:16:25Z")
[Police enter wrong home on burglary call. Kill pet, shoot homeowner, and each other.](http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cops-break-wrong-home-shoot-innocent-homeowner-kill-dog-shoot/) Apparently they’re handing out badges and guns in Crackerjack boxes now. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7440 "2015-12-13T18:19:05Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > [Police enter wrong home on burglary call. Kill pet, shoot homeowner, and each other.](http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cops-break-wrong-home-shoot-innocent-homeowner-kill-dog-shoot/) All the cops in the case are on paid leave. What other job can you fuck up so horribly and get a paid vacation for it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=371) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=373)