# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 375
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7481 "2015-12-20T22:02:39Z")
What’s Smapti’ DSM? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7482 "2015-12-20T22:17:36Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > You’re fucking blind, a baldfaced liar, or both. #2 _immediately_ picks up his gun; it’s clearly in his hand at 0:55. So I guess the large gun-shaped object lying on the ground during the 20 seconds between is just an artifact of the Matrix, then. > [@](#): > > At 1:15 he puts his hand down to steady himself. The gun is already in his hand; he’s not picking it up. Then I await the department’s finding that the rifling on the bullet within Officer #1 is consistent with Officer #2’s weapon. I’m sure that the anarchist propaganda websites advocating this conspiracy theory will link to it the instant it is released. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7483 "2015-12-20T22:41:26Z")
Why is it no surprise that Smapti thinks that the Los Angeles Times is an anarchist propoganda website? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7484 "2015-12-20T22:41:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So I guess the large gun-shaped object lying on the ground during the 20 seconds between is just an artifact of the Matrix, then. More like an artifact of your imagination, you imbecile. Are you talking about that **small** , dark object on the sidewalk next to the car tire, which is _already there when the video begins?_ ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7485 "2015-12-20T22:45:55Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Why is it no surprise that Smapti thinks that the Los Angeles Times is an anarchist propoganda website? The LA Times is not reporting that Officer #2 shot Officer #1. It is reporting that Officer #1 was shot with Officer #2’s weapon and that investigation as to who did the shooting is pending. All of this is immaterial anyway, as the entire encounter would not have occurred if the suspect hadn’t decided to run from the cops in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7486 "2015-12-20T22:55:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The LA Times is not reporting that Officer #2 shot Officer #1. It is reporting that Officer #1 was shot with Officer #2’s weapon and that investigation as to who did the shooting is pending. > > All of this is immaterial anyway, as the entire encounter would not have occurred if the suspect hadn’t decided to run from the cops in the first place. So if they’d shot him right away, the second officer wouldn’t have been wounded? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7487 "2015-12-20T22:59:45Z")
Poor thing, he’s started counting officer #1 officer #2 and then got confused and started counting officer #2 officer #1, all the time studiously ignoring the facts before him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7488 "2015-12-20T23:06:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So if they’d shot him right away, the second officer wouldn’t have been wounded? If the suspect had never chosen to run in the first place, his officer-assisted suicide would never have occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7489 "2015-12-20T23:58:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If the suspect had never chosen to run in the first place, his officer-assisted suicide would never have occurred. Oh, I’m assuming you don’t care a whit about the suspect, just the officers. Should they have shot him immediately to spare the officer the injury? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7490 "2015-12-21T00:54:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@monstro](#): > > > > That wasn’t no accidental discharge. > > So it was what, then? He saw a flipped car in the middle of the road and just decided to shoot the first person he saw, but only once? Wait a minute, I want to go back to this one. I recognize **Smapti** that you believe that a manslaughter charge is appropriate here; for the record I agree. I just want to clarify: you think the officer accidently pulled his gun out of his holster, accidently aimed with both hands, accidently fired, and then re-holstered his weapon all in ~3 seconds? He then reported that he has a male in the car “that refuses to get out” and did not report he had shot anybody until 11 minutes after paramedics arrived. Look, I don’t know what was going through this officer’s head, but their was nothing accidental about it. Why do you believe this was accidental? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7491 "2015-12-21T01:00:29Z")
I have to admit being similarly unclear - is it common for police officers to approach car accidents with weapons drawn? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7492 "2015-12-21T01:13:56Z")
I think there is a difference between a wild chase and crash as opposed to a run of the mill accident, but that being said, he executed the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7493 "2015-12-21T01:30:50Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I think there is a difference between a wild chase and crash as opposed to a run of the mill accident, but that being said, he executed the guy. Well, almost. The driver’s still alive, though possibly paralyzed for life. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7494 "2015-12-21T01:44:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, almost. The driver’s still alive, though possibly paralyzed for life. Eh, no. [He’s dead](http://www.chicoer.com/general-news/20151219/man-shot-by-paradise-officer-dies-protest-continues?source=most_viewed). Also post #7456 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7495 "2015-12-21T01:54:18Z")
I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7496 "2015-12-21T02:34:13Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > > [@Smapti](#): > > > > So I guess the large gun-shaped object lying on the ground during the 20 seconds between is just an artifact of the Matrix, then. > > More like an artifact of your imagination, you imbecile. Are you talking about that **small** , dark object on the sidewalk next to the car tire, which is _already there when the video begins?_ The object by the car tire appears to be a pair of sunglasses. Given that the video appears to be deliberately pointing out that the officer had possession of his weapon directly before and after the shooting, it is amusing that someone could watch it and strongly insist that the opposite is true. Is it just hopefulness that nobody else will watch the video for themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7497 "2015-12-21T02:41:37Z")
Possibly, but I think it is more that he actually believes what he says he is seeing. Scrambled eggs in his brain pain et ali. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7498 "2015-12-21T06:47:58Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Wait a minute, I want to go back to this one. I recognize **Smapti** that you believe that a manslaughter charge is appropriate here; for the record I agree. I just want to clarify: you think the officer accidently pulled his gun out of his holster, accidently aimed with both hands, accidently fired, and then re-holstered his weapon all in ~3 seconds? > > He then reported that he has a male in the car “that refuses to get out” and did not report he had shot anybody until 11 minutes after paramedics arrived. Look, I don’t know what was going through this officer’s head, but their was nothing accidental about it. Why do you believe this was accidental? They just released the audio of the officer’s radio call when he pulled up to the accident scene: Officer: (Extremely agitated)There’s an overturned car, and the driver appears to be dead. What should I do!?!? Dispatch: Ok, calm down. First, you need to make sure that the driver really is dead. Silence for several seconds, then BAM! Officer: Ok, he’s dead, now what? Yeah, I’ll go to hell for this. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7499 "2015-12-21T19:20:52Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Good Lord. Look at the caption! > > One cop fired 49 times? He would have had to reload twice and keep firing! > [@Chimera](#): > > Clearly he felt he was still in danger, right Smapti? You have no idea. I brought this case up with **Smapti** [earlier in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18287854&postcount=1741) and we had a back-and-forth ([1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18287895&postcount=1742) [2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18288033&postcount=1748) [3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18288055&postcount=1750) [4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18288058&postcount=1751) [5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18288077&postcount=1752) [6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18288086&postcount=1754) [7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18288140&postcount=1759) [8](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18288150&postcount=1760)) which ended in him flatly equating the killings to “putting down a dog.” > [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. He did that because they were dangerous and in his perception he needed a clear shot in order to neutralize that danger. > > If a dog starts biting people, you put it down. That doesn’t mean you’re “executing” the dog. Sad to, again, hear of law refusing to prosecute executions. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7500 "2015-12-22T02:01:28Z")
Ohhh, but I get now! Suspects who do not obey police officers immediately are like “rapid dogs” who need to be killed–despite whatever confusion about the situation! Well, that explains a lot. How did we ever doubt **Smapti**? It’s not like a highly trained police officer could be confused as to the guy he shoots? Right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=374) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=376)