# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 384
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7661 "2015-12-31T20:53:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What it _does_ turn them into is an agent of the government who is entitled to respect and obedience. …and to murder people and get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7662 "2015-12-31T20:55:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Forget about shooting the dog. If he’d broke away them to instinctively protect his kid in the car, they probably would have seen that as proof of guilt and shot him. **Smapti** would have. You don’t disobey cops, even to protect your own child. If you do this is proof that you are a criminal as you disobeyed a lawful order by a police officer and you deserve to be shot. Right **Smapti**? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7663 "2015-12-31T20:57:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s as if you don’t understand that they’re using the things you agree with in order to get you to support acting against your own best interest. I forgot to ask, who is ‘they’ in this sentence? Have you gotten to the bottom of the conspiracy yet, **Smapti**? Don’t be shy, tell us! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7664 "2015-12-31T20:58:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I forgot to ask, who is ‘they’ in this sentence? We’ve been over this already - the anarchists who want the police defenseless and incapable of stopping them from doing whatever the hell they want. Stop playing dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7665 "2015-12-31T21:01:15Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > You don’t disobey cops, even to protect your own child. If you do this is proof that you are a criminal as you disobeyed a lawful order by a police officer and you deserve to be shot. Considering that any act of “protecting your own child” in this case would require _assaulting a police officer_, it’s certainly not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7666 "2015-12-31T21:01:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > We’ve been over this already - the anarchists who want the police defenseless and incapable of stopping them from doing whatever the hell they want. Stop playing dumb. So these anarchists are the ones who forced the police in Ferguson to abuse black people and murder Brown, to spark the BLM movement, to force the police to stop randomly murdering people, so that they could commit their petty street crimes unmolested? A clever plot. So, remind me, who are these anarchists? Let’s have names so that we can root them out! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7667 "2015-12-31T21:04:36Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I gotta question… > > If the guy had been carrying and he had shot that dog in the midst of it attacking his baby, would the other officers been within their rights to shoot him? As I understand it, the dog is regarded as an officer. Assaulting a police dog counts as equivalent to assaulting a _homo sapiens_ officer. You are not allowed to harm or kill a police dog in self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7668 "2015-12-31T21:05:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Considering that any act of “protecting your own child” in this case would require _assaulting a police officer_, it’s certainly not a good idea. So . . . if you were in that situation you’d let your toddler be used as a dog’s chew toy? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7669 "2015-12-31T21:09:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > We’ve been over this already - the anarchists who want the police defenseless and incapable of stopping them from doing whatever the hell they want. Stop playing dumb. Those 17 month old anarachists sure are a menace to police. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7670 "2015-12-31T21:10:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So . . . if you were in that situation you’d let your toddler be used as a dog’s chew toy? Considering that the inevitable result of trying to intervene is “I am shot dead for assaulting an officer and my child grows up without a father”, then yes. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So these anarchists are the ones who forced the police in Ferguson to abuse black people and murder Brown, to spark the BLM movement, to force the police to stop randomly murdering people, so that they could commit their petty street crimes unmolested? No, the anarchists took advantage of a justified shooting of no consequence to start the BLM movement, to drive up mob support for disarming the police. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7671 "2015-12-31T21:11:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Considering that any act of “protecting your own child” in this case would require _assaulting a police officer_, it’s certainly not a good idea. Some folks believe that protecting a child is a good thing. Smapti, however, would rather feed a child to a dog. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7672 "2015-12-31T21:12:25Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Some folks believe that protecting a child is a good thing. > > Smapti, however, would rather feed a child to a dog. In your opinion, if the man in this case had thrown himself at the police dog, would things have turned out better for him, for his child, or for the police department? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7673 "2015-12-31T21:12:27Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Some folks believe that protecting a child is a good thing. > > Smapti, however, would rather feed a child to a dog. Only if the dog has a badge…which you know, justifies it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7674 "2015-12-31T21:15:04Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Only if the dog has a badge…which you know, justifies it. The dog, in this case, _does_ have a badge. Which makes it a police officer. Which makes any use of force on it “assaulting an officer”, with all the risk to one’s person that that entails. You’re basically proposing that a man could fight off the police department with his bare hands and that the end result of his attempt would be _better_ than if he’d stood back and allowed the professionals to rein in the animal. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7675 "2015-12-31T21:15:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, the anarchists took advantage of a justified shooting of no consequence to start the BLM movement, to drive up mob support for disarming the police. But the movement only got support because the police were abusing people to begin with, right? So clearly the police were involved in creating an environment that allowed these anarchists to get support…so clearly the police are the anarchists! It’s the only explanation that makes sense! We’ve solved it **Smapti**! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7676 "2015-12-31T21:16:46Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > But the movement only got support because the police were abusing people to begin with, right? So clearly the police were involved in creating an environment that allowed these anarchists to get support…so clearly the police are the anarchists! It’s the only explanation that makes sense! The police are only tools of the government that employs them. If your argument is that governments like the one in Ferguson ought to be disbanded and reorganized into units that will better serve the interests of their constituents, you’ll get no disagreement from me. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7677 "2015-12-31T21:17:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The dog, in this case, _does_ have a badge. Which makes it a police officer. Which makes any use of force on it “assaulting an officer”, with all the risk to one’s person that that entails. > > You’re basically proposing that a man could fight off the police department with his bare hands and that the end result of his attempt would be _better_ than if he’d stood back and allowed the professionals to rein in the animal. It is only the crime of “assaulting an officer” if the officer is acting lawfully. But I have given up ever hoping that you ever will concede that a police officer is capable of committing a crime or violating rights. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7678 "2015-12-31T21:18:33Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > It is only the crime of “assaulting an officer” if the officer is acting lawfully. > > But I have given up ever hoping that you ever will concede that a police officer is capable of committing a crime or violating rights. Do you propose to prosecute a _dog_ for civil rights violations, then? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7679 "2015-12-31T21:19:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The police are only tools of the government that employs them. If your argument is that governments like the one in Ferguson ought to be disbanded and reorganized into units that will better serve the interests of their constituents, you’ll get no disagreement from me. Good point. The police were ‘only following orders’, so they’re not guilty at all, right? Also, just to be clear, are you now saying that the anarchists are the local governments? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7680 "2015-12-31T21:19:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you propose to prosecute a _dog_ for civil rights violations, then? Nope, Most dogs do not even live to the age of majority let alone meet the legal requirements for being charged but it’s handler is very much open to prosecution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=383) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=385)