# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 385
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7681 "2015-12-31T21:20:51Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Nope, Most dogs do not even live to the age of majority let alone meet the legal requirements for being charged but it’s handler is very much open to prosecution. Then the dog’s handler should be charged for his negligence here. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7682 "2015-12-31T21:20:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In your opinion, if the man in this case had thrown himself at the police dog, would things have turned out better for him, for his child, or for the police department? Seriously? Have the dog shot, the dog’s cop locked away for a few years for assault with a deadly weapon, and the rest of the cops fired for failing to do their duty when they did not stop the cop with the dog. As far as the father throwing himself at the dog goes, he was too far away to do so, so your silly little question is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7683 "2015-12-31T21:22:49Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Good point. The police were ‘only following orders’, so they’re not guilty at all, right? The police are not responsible for the policies they’re ordered to enforce. If I’m overweight, it’s not my hand’s fault for shoving more food into my mouth, and it isn’t my mouth’s fault for refusing to close. > [@](#): > > Also, just to be clear, are you now saying that the anarchists are the local governments? The anarchists are the petty criminals who want a weakened police department. Stop playing dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7684 "2015-12-31T21:23:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then the dog’s handler should be charged for his negligence here. The dog’s handler was police, you anarchist! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7685 "2015-12-31T21:24:18Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > As far as the father throwing himself at the dog goes, he was too far away to do so, so your silly little question is irrelevant. Then we’re in agreement that the scenario you proposed was silly; > [@](#): > > Some folks believe that protecting a child is a good thing. > > Smapti, however, would rather feed a child to a dog. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7686 "2015-12-31T21:25:18Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The dog’s handler was police, you anarchist! Are you saying that a police officer can’t commit a crime? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7687 "2015-12-31T21:26:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The police are only tools I always figured that police are people. Most are good. Some are bad. All have the responsibility and ability to act ethically. Sicking a dog on a toddler goes under the heading “bad” in my books, and the bad cop being a cop – or as you put it, being a tool – is no excuse what so ever for what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7688 "2015-12-31T21:28:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The police are not responsible for the policies they’re ordered to enforce. Right, the ‘just following orders’ defense, like I said. > [@](#): > > The anarchists are the petty criminals who want a weakened police department. Stop playing dumb. See, you’re not following the conspiracy properly. BLM was formed as a cover to weaken the police. But BLM only got traction because the police were actually abusing people. But the police were ‘just following orders’, so it was the local governments who forced the police to abuse people who are at the heart of this conspiracy, so \*they \*are the anarchists, right? Your \*they \*is the government, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7689 "2015-12-31T21:29:21Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Sicking a dog on a toddler goes under the heading “bad” in my books, and the bad cop being a cop – or as you put it, being a tool – is no excuse what so ever for what he did. We don’t disagree on that. The difference is there are people out there for whom “the cop screwed up” isn’t a good enough explanation and want to spin elaborate tales about “the cop knew there was a baby in there and unleashed the dog on purpose because cops like hurting people for no reason”. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7690 "2015-12-31T21:29:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Are you saying that a police officer can’t commit a crime? You sicken me, you anarchist. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7691 "2015-12-31T21:30:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The police are only tools… Calling a police officer a tool? you anarchist!!! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7692 "2015-12-31T21:31:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > BLM was formed as a cover to weaken the police. But BLM only got traction because the police were actually abusing people. But the police were ‘just following orders’, so it was the local governments who forced the police to abuse people who are at the heart of this conspiracy, so \*they \*are the anarchists, right? Your \*they \*is the government, right? “The government are anarchists” is, of course, an oxymoron, and you will note that the BLM people didn’t start out chanting about excessive issuance of speeding tickets or moving violations - it was lies about “Hands up, don’t shoot”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7693 "2015-12-31T21:33:33Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Calling a police officer a tool? you anarchist!!! “Tool” isn’t an insult. It’s a statement of fact. The police don’t decide policy. They enforce the policies they’re ordered to. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7694 "2015-12-31T21:36:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “The government are anarchists” is, of course, an oxymoron That’s what \*they \*want you to think. > [@](#): > > and you will note that the BLM people didn’t start out chanting about excessive issuance of speeding tickets or moving violations - it was lies about “Hands up, don’t shoot”. Yeah, the BLM movement didn’t get traction until the police started killing people. But the police would have known that if they started killing people then people would start protesting, right? So clearly the police were complicit. But the police ‘just follow orders’, so it was someone above them who came up with this plan, right? KEEP DIGGING, **SMAPTI**! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7695 "2015-12-31T21:37:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > lies about “Hands up, don’t shoot”. Hands up, don’t bite the baby! ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7696 "2015-12-31T21:51:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Tool” isn’t an insult. It’s a statement of fact. The police don’t decide policy. They enforce the policies they’re ordered to. [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool) ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7697 "2015-12-31T21:58:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Tool” isn’t an insult. It’s a statement of fact. The police don’t decide policy. They enforce the policies they’re ordered to. OK, non-humorous response. The police do not create laws but they do create policy in both what laws they enforce and how they enforce them. There are no laws that require police to aggressively approach a suspect yelling commands in a way that escalates the situation and invokes a fight or flight response from a civilian. This is purely a choice of the police department and their self defined policy. If your claim was true there would be no reason for DOJ consent decrees and poor and or brown citizen would not be harassed and or arrested in a way that white middle class citizens avoid. There would be no reason for the black lives matter movement to exist if your claim was true as the police would be forced to not violate citizens rights. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7698 "2015-12-31T22:02:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The police are not responsible for the policies they’re ordered to enforce. \ Bullshit. This defense did not work in the Nuremburg tribunals, it does not work in the military (See US v. Keenan among others), and it will not work with the police either. If the policy that the police are ordered to follow is illegal, the police are liable even thought they are just following orders. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7699 "2015-12-31T22:06:35Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Bullshit. This defense did not work in the Nuremburg tribunals, it does not work in the military (See US v. Keenan among others), and it will not work with the police either. If the policy that the police are ordered to follow is illegal, the police are liable even thought they are just following orders. Warning Smapti!!! Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7700 "2015-12-31T22:32:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Are you saying that a police officer can’t commit a crime? We’re kinda saying that they commit crimes all. the. fucking. time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=384) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=386)