# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 387
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7721 "2015-12-31T23:33:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that time is past now, so let’s stop pretending we’re living in Jim Crow days. Yeah, the police didn’t single out and abuse black people in Ferguson. I mean, they did, but in the past. The recent past, but the past. I mean, literally everything that’s ever happened happened in the past, so it doesn’t matter. And it’s not happening right now elsewhere. I mean, it is, but only to black people, and they don’t matter. I mean they do matter but not to **Smapti**. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7722 "2015-12-31T23:33:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that time is past now, so let’s stop pretending we’re living in Jim Crow days. So you recognize that it’s possible for the police to be the enemies of law-abiding citizens, you just don’t think they are now? Progress! The only disagreement, then, is on how far the police have changed from how they behaved, as an institution, for most of American history. Do you recognize this, at least – that many of us believe that while there has been some significant improvement, police departments in many localities still treat black people disparately and unfairly, as an institution, even if this disparate and unfair treatment isn’t as brutal as it was in the past? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7723 "2015-12-31T23:33:24Z")
Let me ask you, **Smapti** , do you think there is no difference in how white and black citizens are treated by police, even today? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7724 "2015-12-31T23:43:23Z")
I have a close friend who is police family, who constantly talks about how much crime is in that there big city down there. Black-on-black crime that spills over onto the non-black folk who happen by. Black people (or black culture) seem to be innately violent in this person’s eyes. I tend to see the violence in the city as an actual effect of police behavior. What we have been witnessing is video that was not commonly available twenty and more years ago. It is not literally possible to regress this apparent trend backward to construct a picture of police behavior in the past. But, by the same token, it is not at all reasonable to assume that this is a new thing. If there were little urban violence, police departments could be Andy and Barney, with maybe a few other amusing characters thrown in. But there seems to be a desire to have large police departments in cities (what if there was a crisis and more were needed than what we had), so it is logical, from that point of view, for the police to foster criminality in order to justify their existence. It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it lines up with the apparent facts. In Seattle, there was a May Day march in 2015 that looked to be about 1:1 police-to-marchers. At least one TV station was covering it live, presumably because something might happen. What did happen was not clear, but it looked like a bicycle officer got angry at a marcher, went after him, and then the tear gas started flying. It was not a “riot” until the police made it one. In order to do their job (sorry if I repeat myself), the police must be able to think like criminals. As they become more and more aggressive in their actions, it is looking like the criminal mindset is overwhelming the decent person mindset. It is genuinely becoming difficult to distinguish cops from bad guys. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7725 "2015-12-31T23:44:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Considering that the inevitable result of trying to intervene is “I am shot dead for assaulting an officer and my child grows up without a father”, then yes. Note the curious word choice “inevitable.” Not only _must_ the police shoot the man trying to protect the baby, they are expected to kill him dead. > [@Smapti](#): > > No, the anarchists took advantage of a justified shooting of no consequence to start the BLM movement, to drive up mob support for disarming the police. [**septimus** walks away, still bewildered. I thought replicants were science fiction. :eek:] ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7726 "2015-12-31T23:45:02Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Let me ask you, **Smapti** , do you think there is no difference in how white and black citizens are treated by police, even today? I have not observed any significant difference in how law-abiding white people and law-abiding black people are treated. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7727 "2015-12-31T23:46:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you recognize that it’s possible for the police to be the enemies of law-abiding citizens, you just don’t think they are now? I recognize that there was a time when the government ordered the police to treat black people unfairly. That time has past. There is currently no impetus for the police to act as if it was 60 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7728 "2015-12-31T23:48:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What it _does_ turn them into is an agent of the government who is entitled to respect and obedience. I’ll agree with respect, but did you just say obedience, comrade? What the fuck? No agent of the government is entitled to our obedience. But whatever. What you fail to understand is that it also turns them into a public servant that should be held to high standards of professionalism, trustworthiness and ethical behavior. _And that’s the whole point of this thread_. No one is out to shred police as a whole, we’re out to point to the fuck-up that shoots someone for no reason and say “Hey, get that asshole off the force!” We want the police to be better. You, on the other hand, want the bad cops to not be questioned. Who’s side are you on? If you have such high respect for the police, why do you argue so passionately in favor of the really bad fuck-ups on the force? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7729 "2015-12-31T23:51:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I have not observed any significant difference in how law-abiding white people and law-abiding black people are treated. [none at all, nope](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvW_zBvJlsA) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7730 "2015-12-31T23:52:37Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I’ll agree with respect, but did you just say obedience, comrade? What the fuck? No agent of the government is entitled to our obedience. Obedience is at the core of any functioning government. If you expect the government to protect your rights and your property, then you had damned well better fall into line when they expect you to obey the law. > [@](#): > > No one is out to shred police as a whole, we’re out to point to the fuck-up that shoots someone for no reason and say “Hey, get that asshole off the force!” Then why do you insist on lumping the Darren Wilsons in with the Michael Slagers? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7731 "2015-12-31T23:57:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I have not observed any significant difference in how law-abiding white people and law-abiding black people are treated. So you’re saying that you’re an idiot? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7732 "2015-12-31T23:59:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then why do you insist on lumping the Darren Wilsons in with the Michael Slagers? Where did I do that? I don’t even know either of those names. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7733 "2016-01-01T00:00:28Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [none at all, nope](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvW_zBvJlsA) The one is carrying his gun on his back and is accompanied by a number of other people. The other is strolling along on his lonesome clutching his gun by the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7734 "2016-01-01T00:07:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The one is carrying his gun on his back and is accompanied by a number of other people. Open carry laws only apply to people in groups? Hey, I can see one other difference you forgot to mention, or are you just an idiot? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7735 "2016-01-01T00:11:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > … clutching his gun by the barrel. Uh… what? Did you watch the same video? A) he isn’t touching the rifle at all B) if he were “clutching it,” which he’s not, it wouldn’t be the barrel. The barrel is down by his shins. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7736 "2016-01-01T00:11:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The one is carrying his gun on his back and is accompanied by a number of other people. > > The other is strolling along on his lonesome clutching his gun by the barrel. Ah, so here we see part of the problem. Your eyes do not function correctly (or your brain fail to interpret visual input in a consistent manner). Neither of those supposed differences are correct (or may be you just stated them incorrectly). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7737 "2016-01-01T00:21:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I recognize that there was a time when the government ordered the police to treat black people unfairly. That time has past. There is currently no impetus for the police to act as if it was 60 years ago. So you say, and I don’t believe you. You are incorrect here. I trust black people, in general, to know best how black people are treated – they’ve been right about how they’ve been treated through all of American history, despite the disbelief of many white people, and I think it’s far more likely than not that they (as a group) continue to be correct about how they are treated. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7738 "2016-01-01T00:22:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I have not observed any significant difference in how law-abiding white people and law-abiding black people are treated. Yep, and here’s your problem. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7739 "2016-01-01T00:33:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s a law-abiding citizens vs. criminals issue. The police are on the side of the law-abiding people. Which side are you on? Yeah, but you are the one who labeled people like Tamir Rice as a criminal even though he was convicted of no crimes. The whole purpose of this thread is to show police overreach. Instances where our boys in blue did something controversial in their interactions with the civilian populace. We understand that you think Tamir Rice deserved to die and that the history of police interaction with African Americans never happened, but for the rest of us it is controversial when police officers kill unarmed people who committed minor or even no crimes. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7740 "2016-01-01T00:35:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The police were on their side. This particular officer screwed up. > > Why are you incapable of reconciling these facts with one another? Well, for me, people who are “on my side” don’t usually send dogs to attack me or my children. The officer who released the dog is still a cop, though he voluntarily switched out of the K9 unit. He set the dog on a _toddler_. Yes, he “screwed up.” I imagine he got a stern talking to, as well. The police should be held to a higher standard. Yes, they’re human, but what we’ve seen in this thread is that they’re not held to a higher standard. They get away with “oopsies” that hurt and kill innocent people. The innocent, law abiding people that you claim are on the same side as the cops. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=386) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=388)