# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 389
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7761 "2016-01-01T02:50:15Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Right, so what - cop lives matter? Absolutely no one on this thread is happy to hear of officers being killed or wounded in the line of duty, **UberStrawboy**. Or even when some crazy assholes shoot them up off duty at Sizzler. So go eat that idea now, before you get beaten down with it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7762 "2016-01-01T08:01:13Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > It’s just a bunch of numbers and breaks down nothing. That’s why we have grand jurys and stuff like that: To prevent idiots from undermining the justice system. And how do you feel about the civil forfiture laws and the for profit prisons? Did you read the DOJ report on Ferguson? How do you feel about that? Do you feel that justice in this country is dispensed evenly? Is justice blind, or do we have people getting different results due to their affluenza? ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7763 "2016-01-01T17:24:13Z")
Your cherry-picked numbers mean nothing. They tell absolutely nothing about what happened, why, motivation, who was really at fault or anything else about a single one of the thousands of incidents you trumpet. OTOH, EVERY SINGLE COP THAT GETS SHOT IN THE LINE OF DUTY SHOULD NOT HAVE, BY ANY REASONABLE MEASURE. Think about that and keep leaning hard on your lampost. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7764 "2016-01-01T17:32:30Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Your cherry-picked numbers mean nothing. They tell absolutely nothing about what happened, why, motivation, who was really at fault or anything else about a single one of the thousands of incidents you trumpet. OTOH, EVERY SINGLE COP THAT GETS SHOT IN THE LINE OF DUTY SHOULD NOT HAVE, BY ANY REASONABLE MEASURE. > > Think about that and keep leaning hard on your lampost. :smack: You’re witnessing, not engaging in any semblance of a debate. It’s entirely possible to condemn both the shootings of cops and mistreatment of civilians by some police officers. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7765 "2016-01-01T17:43:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > If I remember correctly, there were something like 34 police killed in 2015. By comparison, police killed over 1,100 people. Those numbers are from memory, so they may be wrong, but they’re probably right to an order of magnitude. Wasn’t it Sir William Blackstone who wrote “It is better that ten innocent persons be shot dead than that one bullying cop suffer.” ? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7766 "2016-01-01T18:17:29Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Some people posting in this thread like to use statistics as a drunk uses a lampost: More for support rather than illumination. > > Keep throwing your numbers around and I’ll just say this: EVERY SINGLE COP THAT GETS SHOT did not need to be shot, and should not have been shot unless some scumbag criminal decided to shoot him/her. The VAST MAJORITY of the people cops shoot NEEDED to be shot, because they were engaging in criminal activity and threatening the police that were confronting them. > > With very few exceptions. 😉 So, what’s your opinion on police serving a no-knock warrant on the wrong address–does the home owner have a right to fire on guys breaking into his house? ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7767 "2016-01-01T18:23:52Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > So, what’s your opinion on police serving a no-knock warrant on the wrong address–does the home owner have a right to fire on guys breaking into his house? Sure, if he’s stupid enough to pursue suicide by police. Mistakes happen. What’s your point? Oh wait, let me guess: The potential for mistakes to happen invalidates any legitimacy of the simple fact that cops perform dangerous jobs for minimal pay performing tasks placing in harm’s way every day to reduce the risk to us posed by society’s miscreants. Something like that? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7768 "2016-01-01T18:33:13Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Sure, if he’s stupid enough to pursue suicide by police. Mistakes happen. What’s your point? Among others, when I make a mistake, there are consequences. Police, not so much. A culture of no accountability, encouraged by complicit district attorneys and lawn order bootlicks. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7769 "2016-01-01T18:40:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Among others, when I make a mistake, there are consequences. Police, not so much. A culture of no accountability, encouraged by complicit district attorneys and lawn order bootlicks. You are certainly entitled to your 24x7 media-induced misconception of an opinion. Plenty of cops have suffered dire consequences for their misdeeds. To suggest they do not in some institutionalized conspiracy is not only extremely disingenuous, but contributes to the ongoing sensationalist stupidity engendered in this thread. Here’s your sign! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7770 "2016-01-01T18:41:12Z")
UberArchetype doesn’t seem interested in answering these questions, so I’ll take a whack at it; > [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > And how do you feel about the civil forfiture laws Generally in favor, but there need to be stronger restrictions on when assets can be seized and what they can be spent on. > [@](#): > > and the for profit prisons? Absolutely opposed. > [@](#): > > Did you read the DOJ report on Ferguson? How do you feel about that? I feel that municipal governments are leaning on police citations as a way to avoid having to make politically undesirable tax hikes. I also feel that if people did a better job of obeying the law, they could make this tactic stop working and force the politicians to be honest with the people they represent. > [@](#): > > Do you feel that justice in this country is dispensed evenly? Is justice blind, or do we have people getting different results due to their affluenza? In general, justice in this system is dispensed fairly except in that white-collar crimes are punished less severely than blue-collar crimes and that wealthy people generally have access to better representation than poor people do, which can result in them getting lighter sentences. We need a lot more funding for public defenders so we can ensure that the poor have access to qualified lawyers who aren’t overworked. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7771 "2016-01-01T18:53:11Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Oh wait, let me guess: The potential for mistakes to happen invalidates any legitimacy of the simple fact that cops perform dangerous jobs for minimal pay performing tasks placing in harm’s way every day to reduce the risk to us posed by society’s miscreants. > > Something like that? :rolleyes: “Minimal pay?” Average salary for a cop is about 56,000 a year, not including health and benefits. That’s more money than I’ve ever made in my life at one job. They’ve also got a fatality rate of about 12 in 100,000, which is more dangerous than working an office job, but still well outside the top ten most dangerous jobs - one of which, incidentally, I used to have. So I’ve put myself at more bodily risk than your average cop has, and for less money. And yet, somehow, if i gun down an unarmed twelve year old, I don’t know think the fact that I was a machinist earning an eyebrow-hair more than minimum wage is going to earn me any slack at all. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7772 "2016-01-01T18:59:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > UberArchetype doesn’t seem interested in answering these questions, so I’ll take a whack at it; OMG!– **Smapti** as the voice of reason! Tells ya what a nutjob **UberArchetype** is! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7773 "2016-01-01T19:02:32Z")
[No, the police never conspire to fudge evidence or frame the innocent](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-shooting-inglewood_566769bae4b080eddf560fec). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7774 "2016-01-01T19:04:58Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7775 "2016-01-01T19:09:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [No, the police never conspire to fudge evidence or frame the innocent](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-shooting-inglewood_566769bae4b080eddf560fec). Yeah, this is absolutely beyond the pale. _These_ officers fucked up big time and deserve to have the book thrown at them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7776 "2016-01-01T19:11:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yeah, this is absolutely beyond the pale. _These_ officers fucked up big time and deserve to have the book thrown at them. Do you think it’s possible that this kind of thing might be relatively common, and known to victims and witnesses (i.e. many black people with bad personal experiences with police), but not fully investigated or prosecuted? If a black person has experienced something like this, with the police officers involved getting away scot-free, do you think it’s reasonable that this person might rationally see police officers as hostile and violent enemies? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7777 "2016-01-01T19:14:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you think it’s possible that this kind of thing might be relatively common No. > [@](#): > > If a black person has experienced something like this, with the police officers involved getting away scot-free, do you think it’s reasonable that this person might rationally see police officers as hostile and violent enemies? It would be highly irrational to assume that 1.1 million sworn law enforcement officers are all corrupt racists on the basis of the behavior of _five_ of them. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7778 "2016-01-01T19:29:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yeah, this is absolutely beyond the pale. _These_ officers fucked up big time and deserve to have the book thrown at them. This happened four and a half years ago. Is there any indication that the officers involved have been disciplined? I cannot seem to find anything beyond a civil action by the two black guys. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7779 "2016-01-01T19:30:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > UberArchetype doesn’t seem interested in answering these questions, so I’ll take a whack at it Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7780 "2016-01-01T19:30:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No. We think it’s possible. Perhaps, hopefully, you at least better understand the opposition to your arguments – it’s not fantasy-anarchists; it’s people who believe that the same institutional racism and discrimination that ruled law enforcement for most of American history are still significant (if less brutal than in the past) problems in many localities. > [@](#): > > It would be highly irrational to assume that 1.1 million sworn law enforcement officers are all corrupt racists on the basis of the behavior of _five_ of them. I didn’t say this. But if someone’s only experience with police officers is corruption and discriminatory behavior, then that person might think there’s a significant chance that the next time they deal with a cop, this cop might be a dangerous enemy bent on harming them. I’ll consider it a surprising amount of progress for you if you are able at least to consider that you’ve been mostly wrong about the reasons behind BLM and other criticisms of law enforcement practices. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=388) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=390)