# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 393
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7842 "2016-01-07T03:57:48Z")
[Cop breaks bones of a fellow who prayed for a seal.](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/video-shows-native-hawaiian-man-severely-beaten-cop-praying-next-seal) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7843 "2016-01-07T03:59:40Z")
[Asshole (ex-)officer who pulled over Sandra Bland has been indicted for perjury in the case](http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/national/report-grand-jury-indicts-cop-perjury-sandra-bland/npykG/). Progress? Or will he just walk like so many others? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7844 "2016-01-07T04:14:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [Asshole (ex-)officer who pulled over Sandra Bland has been indicted for perjury in the case](http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/national/report-grand-jury-indicts-cop-perjury-sandra-bland/npykG/). > > Progress? Or will he just walk like so many others? This article and others I found don’t have much detail. Maybe I missed something from when this was last in the news. What’s the perjury charge about? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7845 "2016-01-07T04:48:36Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [Asshole (ex-)officer who pulled over Sandra Bland has been indicted for perjury in the case](http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/national/report-grand-jury-indicts-cop-perjury-sandra-bland/npykG/). > > Progress? Or will he just walk like so many others? > [@Ruken](#): > > This article and others I found don’t have much detail. Maybe I missed something from when this was last in the news. What’s the perjury charge about? Per [the AP story about this: > [@](#): > > A Texas state trooper who arrested Sandra Bland after a contentious traffic stop last summer was fired Wednesday after being charged with perjury for allegedly lying about his confrontation with the black woman who died three days later in jail. > > Trooper Brian Encinia claimed in an affidavit that Bland was “combative and uncooperative” after he pulled her over and ordered her out of her car. The grand jury identified that affidavit in charging Encinia with perjury, special prosecutor Shawn McDonald said Wednesday night. > [@](#): > > Video of the stop shows Encinia drawing his stun gun and telling Bland, “I will light you up!” She can later be heard off-camera screaming that he’s about to break her wrists and complaining that he knocked her head into the ground. > > Encinia’s affidavit stated he “removed her from her vehicle to further conduct a safer traffic investigation,” but grand jurors “found that statement to be false,” said McDonald, one of five special prosecutors appointed to investigate. ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_WOMAN\_DEAD\_IN\_JAIL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-01-06-22-48-44](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WOMAN_DEAD_IN_JAIL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-01-06-22-48-44)) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7846 "2016-01-07T05:12:01Z")
> [@](#): > > She can later be heard off-camera screaming that he’s about to break her wrists and complaining that he knocked her head into the ground. The cop was in fear, so any defensive move he made was justified. If he hadn’t injured her hand, she might have used it against him by failing to signal again. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7847 "2016-01-07T15:40:50Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The cop was in fear, so any defensive move he made was justified. If he hadn’t injured her hand, she might have used it against him by failing to signal again. She may have also damaged the ground with her head–potentially causing a traffic hazard if the ground was the street or a pedestrian hazard if it was to the side of the road. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7848 "2016-01-07T20:41:06Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [Cop breaks bones of a fellow who prayed for a seal.](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/video-shows-native-hawaiian-man-severely-beaten-cop-praying-next-seal) Did you watch the video? That guy totally deserved the beatdown. If you didn’t notice, that guy was brown without a doubt. You have to break some brown eggs if you want to make a justice omelet. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7849 "2016-01-11T02:05:44Z")
[Ex-officer in Md. gets 5 years for aiming gun at man’s head](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/ex-officer-in-md-to-be-sentenced-for-pointing-gun-at-mans-head/2016/01/07/12c3f9c8-b3ef-11e5-9388-466021d971de_story.html) > [@](#): > > “He’s not the guy you see in the video,” Santiago’s fiancee, Ashley Armstead, told the judge. “Everyone is making him seem like he is some sort of monster, and he is not that person.” Umm. If there’s a video, you are that guy darlin. But obviously the man deserved to have a gun aimed at his head for failing to respect the cop’s authority. Or something. You’ll have to ask **Smapti** to get a definitive answer. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7850 "2016-01-11T03:33:55Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > But obviously the man deserved to have a gun aimed at his head for failing to respect the cop’s authority. Or something. > > You’ll have to ask **Smapti** to get a definitive answer. One should never point a gun at another human being unless one intends to shoot and kill them. This officer was in the wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7851 "2016-01-11T03:47:43Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I realized something the other day. > > If you believe that your sole goal is to stay alive – not leave a legacy, not live a good life, but simply to stay alive - then Smapti’s stance in re suicide and law enforcement makes complete sense. Making any kind of stand that may result in your death is stupid. Whether that stand is against police brutality or against the inevitable grinding onslaught of terminal disease - your only obligation is to breathe and keep breathing. We argued in another thread about whether a life of unrelenting suffering was worth prolonging. And if you believe that the ultimate goal is to take another breath, then i suppose it is. > > My father made it very clear to me that there is a world of difference between “living” and "existing. " who wants to merely exist from breath to breath? Living is where it’s at. I think the appeal of that sort of logic is that there is no nuance or judgment. You always follow the rule, and there’s no ambiguity about what you should do, or what the right thing is, just if you are strong enough to do it. In some ways, it’s crushingly disappointing that reality isn’t like that: it demands judgment. Anyone who is 100% certain they did the right thing is deluded, because we can’t really ever be sure we did the right thing. I’m not sure we can ever be sure we did the best we could. All we can do is keep trying. It’s terrifying, really. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7852 "2016-01-11T12:27:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > One should never point a gun at another human being unless one intends to shoot and kill them. > > This officer was in the wrong. Interesting how you’ll never condemn an officer’s actions until after he’s been tried and convicted. Until that happens it’s quite sad watching the contortions you’ll put yourself through to justify their actions. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7853 "2016-01-11T14:08:15Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > [Ex-officer in Md. gets 5 years for aiming gun at man’s head](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/ex-officer-in-md-to-be-sentenced-for-pointing-gun-at-mans-head/2016/01/07/12c3f9c8-b3ef-11e5-9388-466021d971de_story.html) > > But obviously the man deserved to have a gun aimed at his head for failing to respect the cop’s authority. Or something. > > You’ll have to ask **Smapti** to get a definitive answer. Had he emptied his gun into the man, killing him, and claimed that he was in fear – the suspect might have been reaching for a nail-file or something == _the cop would have been let off scot-free._ It does seem that this verdict sends the wrong message to cops. Shoot to kill and get the automatic grand jury whitewash. Point the gun _without_ shooting and go to jail. 😕 Right, **smapti**? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7854 "2016-01-11T14:25:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > One should never point a gun at another human being unless one intends to shoot and kill them. > > This officer was in the wrong. So if he had pulled the trigger, you’d have been fine with it? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7855 "2016-01-11T14:37:53Z")
NYPD cop assaults a man photographing the police, arrests him, ruins the camera, and files a false arrest report accusing the citizen of assaulting the cop! Just another day in modern American “crime-fighting”? No. A nearby business also video-recorded the whole encounter. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7856 "2016-01-11T15:17:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So if he had pulled the trigger, you’d have been fine with it? If he’d pulled the trigger, then it would have been up to the jury to decide whether or not his use of force was justified. Pointing the gun and not shooting proves he didn’t need to pull the gun in the first place; thus it’s unjustified. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7857 "2016-01-11T16:42:35Z")
So pulling a gun, shooting a man climbing out of a wreck, then re-holstering his weapon and not telling anyone about it is plausibly an accident while pointing a gun at someone’s head without shooting them is obviously at fault. Think I’ve got it straight now. Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7858 "2016-01-11T16:55:50Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > NYPD cop assaults a man photographing the police, arrests him, ruins the camera, and files a false arrest report accusing the citizen of assaulting the cop! Just another day in modern American “crime-fighting”? > No. A nearby business also video-recorded the whole encounter. [Fixed your link.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVZXCH6Vdnw) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7859 "2016-01-11T17:28:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If he’d pulled the trigger, then it would have been up to the jury to decide whether or not his use of force was justified. Pointing the gun and not shooting proves he didn’t need to pull the gun in the first place; thus it’s unjustified. **Smapti** ’s lessons to law enforcement – always pull the trigger and keep shooting until they are dead. Then he is on your side. If you don’t shoot them, **Smapti** definitely disapproves. If you shoot them, he probably approves. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7860 "2016-01-17T16:42:59Z")
[Black deliveryman beaten by San Francisco cops while en route to deliver a burrito](http://sfist.com/2016/01/14/black_bicyclist_says_he_was_stopped.php). As someone who calls SF home, it’s incredibly sad seeing the litany of police violence stories coming out of the city. The SF police force have been known to be a problem police force for a while now and it doesn’t seem like there’s any strong movement towards reform. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7861 "2016-01-17T17:02:02Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > [Black deliveryman beaten by San Francisco cops while en route to deliver a burrito](http://sfist.com/2016/01/14/black_bicyclist_says_he_was_stopped.php). And using a phone while operating a vehicle. And refusing to provide ID. And resisting arrest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=392) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=394)