# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 394
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7862 "2016-01-17T17:05:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And using a phone while operating a vehicle. And refusing to provide ID. And resisting arrest. Which justifies being beaten to death. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7863 "2016-01-17T17:25:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And using a phone while operating a vehicle. And refusing to provide ID. And resisting arrest. Apparently, the cell phone law in California only applies to motorized vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7864 "2016-01-17T17:36:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Which justifies being beaten to death. I’m curious as to how the paper was able to interview a dead man. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7865 "2016-01-17T17:40:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Apparently, the cell phone law in California only applies to motorized vehicles. [A person shall not ride a bicycle while using a wireless telephone unless that telephone is specifically designed and configured to allow hands-free listening and talking, and is used in that manner while riding the bicycle.](http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=200920100SB1475) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7866 "2016-01-17T17:45:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [A person shall not ride a bicycle while using a wireless telephone unless that telephone is specifically designed and configured to allow hands-free listening and talking, and is used in that manner while riding the bicycle.](http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=200920100SB1475) Does that law specify immediate physical assault, without due process, as the punishment? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7867 "2016-01-17T17:47:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Does that law specify immediate physical assault, without due process, as the punishment? He wasn’t assaulted for having his phone out. He was lawfully subdued when he started resisting arrest. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7868 "2016-01-17T17:48:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He wasn’t assaulted for having his phone out. He was lawfully subdued when he started resisting arrest. Ahh, I wasn’t aware that you were there witnessing that he resisted arrest. Quite a coincidence! Out of curiosity, why did you mention the phone law as if it justified him being beaten, then? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7869 "2016-01-17T17:51:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ahh, I wasn’t aware that you were there witnessing that he resisted arrest. Quite a coincidence! I’m just taking his word for it, as he says himself in the article, that he refused to follow instructions and was verbally and physically resisting the officer. > [@](#): > > Out of curiosity, why did you mention the phone law as if it justified him being beaten, then? If he hadn’t been breaking the law in the first place, he wouldn’t have been stopped, and if he hadn’t kept mouthing off and refusing to follow instructions he wouldn’t have been subdued. Once again, he brought it on himself. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7870 "2016-01-17T17:53:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m just taking his word for it, as he says himself in the article, that he refused to follow instructions and was verbally and physically resisting the officer. No he didn’t, liar. > [@](#): > > If he hadn’t been breaking the law in the first place, he wouldn’t have been stopped, and if he hadn’t kept mouthing off and refusing to follow instructions he wouldn’t have been subdued. > > Once again, he brought it on himself. Just as slaves who were beaten, raped, and killed “brought it on themselves” by [not obeying their masters](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715425&postcount=447), right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7871 "2016-01-17T18:23:33Z")
It’s almost as if you’re beginning to see the association between disobeying authority and suffering negative consequences. This is progress. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7872 "2016-01-17T18:48:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s almost as if you’re beginning to see the association between disobeying authority and suffering negative consequences. > > This is progress. Progress can also take the form of questioning authority and its actions, but I doubt any of us are expecting much advancement from you on that front. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7873 "2016-01-17T19:01:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s almost as if you’re beginning to see the association between disobeying authority and suffering negative consequences. > > This is progress. There are countless instances in history in which the resistance of authority was necessary for progress. You are incapable of seeing this possibility. Not that this has anything to do with the case in question, since there’s no evidence at this point that he resisted arrest. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7874 "2016-01-17T19:03:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s almost as if you’re beginning to see the association between disobeying authority and suffering negative consequences. > > This is progress. To repeat, **Smapti** believes it is wrong for slaves to disobey their masters. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7875 "2016-01-17T19:30:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m just taking his word for it, as he says himself in the article, that he refused to follow instructions and was verbally and physically resisting the officer. Care to show that quote? I’m not seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7876 "2016-01-17T20:30:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are countless instances in history in which the resistance of authority was necessary for progress. I disagree. History shows that violent revolution does more harm than good. > [@](#): > > Not that this has anything to do with the case in question, since there’s no evidence at this point that he resisted arrest. Do you dispute that he refused to provide ID, refused to put away his phone when instructed to do so, and proceeded to about at the officer when arrested, continued flailing about and refusing to be handcuffed such that reinforcements were required, and continued to verbally refuse to stop resisting? Because that’s the _arrestee’s_ account of how it went down. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7877 "2016-01-17T20:50:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I disagree. History shows that violent revolution does more harm than good. Except in the American Revolution, various successful slave uprisings and escapes, camp uprisings, and many, many more. > [@](#): > > Do you dispute that he refused to provide ID, refused to put away his phone when instructed to do so, and proceeded to about at the officer when arrested, continued flailing about and refusing to be handcuffed such that reinforcements were required, and continued to verbally refuse to stop resisting? > > Because that’s the _arrestee’s_ account of how it went down. No it’s not, liar. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7878 "2016-01-17T20:51:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I disagree. History shows that violent revolution does more harm than good. > > … Yeah, the American Revolutionary War proved that. ETA, beat by a minute. lol ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7879 "2016-01-17T20:51:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you dispute that he refused to provide ID, refused to put away his phone when instructed to do so, and proceeded to about at the officer when arrested, continued flailing about and refusing to be handcuffed such that reinforcements were required, and continued to verbally refuse to stop resisting? > > Because that’s the _arrestee’s_ account of how it went down. Please provide the quote from the arrestee’s account that demonstrates his refusal to provide ID. The story says that he can’t provide any; that’s not the same as refusing to provide any. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7880 "2016-01-17T20:59:15Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yeah, the American Revolutionary War proved that. The American Revolution killed 130,000 people who otherwise would have lived, accomplished nothing the rest of the British colonies didn’t get peacefully within a few generations anyway, and left us with a society, culture and government that is more conservative, less adaptive to changing times, less free, less equal, more violent, and more subject to control by religious zealots and wealthy elites than even the country we broke away from. It was a net loss for the American people, and ironically a direct cause of many of the law-enforcement issues you’re complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7881 "2016-01-17T21:14:35Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The story says that he can’t provide any; that’s not the same as refusing to provide any. For all intents and purposes, it is. He obviously possess ID, because he has legitimate employment. He therefore made a conscious decision not to carry it with him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=393) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=395)