# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 395
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7882 "2016-01-17T21:16:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > For all intents and purposes, it is. He obviously possess ID, because he has legitimate employment. He therefore made a conscious decision not to carry it with him. You are not required to carry ID when riding a bicycle. I don’t always carry ID when riding a bike, or walking on the street. If a police officer asks me for ID, the fact that i do not have it with me is NOT the same as refusing to provide it, your personal fantasies and self-serving arguments notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7883 "2016-01-17T21:25:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It was a net loss for the American people, and ironically a direct cause of many of the law-enforcement issues you’re complaining about. Like the police violating amendments in that pesky Bill of Rights? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7884 "2016-01-17T21:32:11Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You are not required to carry ID when riding a bicycle. False. As noted in the article, a bicyclist is required to provide ID if stopped for a traffic violation. This man made a conscious decision to place himself in a situation where, if pulled over, he would be breaking the law. > [@](#): > > I don’t always carry ID when riding a bike, or walking on the street. Why on Earth not? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7885 "2016-01-17T21:37:48Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yeah, the American Revolutionary War proved that. > > ETA, beat by a minute. lol I’d suggest the English Civil War was historically far more important in shattering the idea of royal power, and that beat the American Revolution by over a century. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7886 "2016-01-17T21:41:03Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Please provide the quote from the arrestee’s account that demonstrates his refusal to provide ID. The liar **Smapti** should provide quotes for each one of his claims. He won’t, because most of them are false. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7887 "2016-01-17T21:45:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The liar **Smapti** should provide quotes for each one of his claims. He won’t, because most of them are false. > [@](#): > > Asked for his ID in a snippet of video he recorded, Reid cannot produce any. As an article lifted from Bicycling magazine explains, in certain situations cyclists do need to present identification if it’s requested by police or else risk being taken into custody. You were saying? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7888 "2016-01-17T21:47:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You were saying? I was saying that you’re a _liar_, for making multiple claims (including that he _refused_ (not failed) to provide ID) that are unsupported or refuted by the arrestee’s account. You said many things about the account, not just this, that are false, liar. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7889 "2016-01-17T21:51:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I was saying that you’re a _liar_, for making multiple claims (including that he _refused_ (not failed) to provide ID) that are unsupported or refuted by the arrestee’s account. He had an obligation to provide ID. He did not do so. He refused to provide ID. QED. > [@](#): > > You said many things about the account, not just this, that are false, liar. If that were the case, then you wouldn’t be trying to word-lawyer the difference between “failed” and “refused” in a situation where the end result of either was that he broke the law. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7890 "2016-01-17T22:01:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He had an obligation to provide ID. He did not do so. He refused to provide ID. QED. > > If that were the case, then you wouldn’t be trying to word-lawyer the difference between “failed” and “refused” in a situation where the end result of either was that he broke the law. There’s very little point of trying to reason with someone who lies as regularly, as well as expressing abominable opinions like _slaves are wrong to disobey their masters_, as you do. You said his own account said he resisted arrest, that he “about at the officer” (whatever that means), and that he “continued flailing about and refusing to be handcuffed”. Those are all _lies_, liar. You lied repeatedly, and it was incredibly easy to check. You have no interest (and perhaps no ability) to tell truth from falsehood. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7891 "2016-01-17T22:16:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You said his own account said he resisted arrest, that he “about at the officer” (whatever that means), and that he “continued flailing about and refusing to be handcuffed”. Those are all _lies_, liar. > [@](#): > > Later, more officers came and began holding my legs in the air and beating my legs, while telling me to stop resisting and keep my legs on the ground. I told him I couldn’t do that I’m not the one lying here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7892 "2016-01-17T22:21:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m not the one lying here. Yes you are, liar (who also cuts off quotes to remove the context). Saying that an officer said “stop resisting” is not the same as him saying he resisted arrest, liar. You’re incapable of not conflating to the point of utter lies just to support the pro-authority stance in a given instance. In case you’re a complete idiot as well as a liar and a terrible person, he was saying _the officer was lying about his resistance_. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7893 "2016-01-17T22:24:02Z")
The officer told him to stop resisting (which, in case you still refuse to take the victim at his word, the video shows he was doing anyway) and he responded that he couldn’t stop resisting. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7894 "2016-01-17T22:32:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The officer told him to stop resisting (which, in case you still refuse to take the victim at his word, the video shows he was doing anyway) and he responded that he couldn’t stop resisting. He never said he “couldn’t stop resisting”, liar. He said he couldn’t move his legs because they were being held, liar. And the video doesn’t show this, liar. The video shows him reacting as a person would to being beaten. Putting aside your incredible dishonesty, cowardice, and immorality (by your posts, at least), I can’t make a final judgment on this incident based on the video and statements. Further evidence may reveal that the arrestee’s account is entirely correct and he was beaten unjustly and unlawfully, or it may reveal that he instigated the violence at some point. But your lies do nothing to sway me on this, and shouldn’t sway anyone. And you should stop lying – it’s entirely possible to make an argument without constantly lying. You lie constantly and repeatedly and hurt your own arguments. If you made honest arguments, then at least the “dishonesty” part of your “lying immoral coward” trinity could be dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7895 "2016-01-17T23:12:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He never said he “couldn’t stop resisting”, liar. He said he couldn’t move his legs because they were being held, liar. And yet the video shows him moving his legs. I’m not the liar here. > [@](#): > > The video shows him reacting as a person would to being beaten. Then he wouldn’t have been kicking and screaming. I’m not the liar here. > [@](#): > > And you should stop lying – it’s entirely possible to make an argument without constantly lying. I’d have to start lying first. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7896 "2016-01-17T23:14:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And yet the video shows him moving his legs. I’m not the liar here. Yes you are. If you had said “he moved his legs as his legs were beaten”, you wouldn’t have been lying. But you said something else that was a lie. > [@](#): > > Then he wouldn’t have been kicking and screaming. I’m not the liar here. His actions are entirely consistent with a person being beaten. It’s not possible to hold perfectly still and make no noise while being beaten. So you’re still lying here. > [@](#): > > I’d have to start lying first. You’ve never stopped, friend to slavers. Funny how you’ve entirely abandoned your first dishonest claims – that the arrestee’s own account said that he “continued flailing about and refusing to be handcuffed” – to different dishonest claims about the video. Your earlier lies won’t be excused by new ones, liar. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7897 "2016-01-17T23:21:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not possible to hold perfectly still and make no noise while being beaten. Have you ever been beaten? Because I can assure you that it is, especially if you want the beating to stop. > [@](#): > > You’ve never stopped, friend to slavers. I am not a “friend to slavers” and you know that. Stop being dishonest. > [@](#): > > Funny how you’ve entirely abandoned your first dishonest claims – that the arrestee’s own account said that he “continued flailing about and refusing to be handcuffed” – to different dishonest claims about the video. It is true that he admitted to resisting arrest and it is true that the video shows him resisting arrest. All the proof is right in front of you and you insist on ignoring it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7898 "2016-01-17T23:29:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Have you ever been beaten? Because I can assure you that it is, especially if you want the beating to stop. I don’t believe you, liar. Even if it’s possible for some, it’s not possible for every human. > [@](#): > > I am not a “friend to slavers” and you know that. Stop being dishonest. Yes you are – you believe that the only morally correct action for a slave is to obey their master. That’s [explicitly what you said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715425&postcount=447). That’s friendly to slavers. > [@](#): > > It is true that he admitted to resisting arrest and it is true that the video shows him resisting arrest. All the proof is right in front of you and you insist on ignoring it. These are blatant and obvious lies. Or perhaps you’re just so blinded by your abominable philosophy that you’re only able to see falsehood when the truth goes against your disgusting beliefs about authority. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7899 "2016-01-17T23:33:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t believe you, liar. Even if it’s possible for some, it’s not possible for every human. I’ll take that as a “no, I have no actual experience with this and am just talking out of thin air”. > [@](#): > > Yes you are – you believe that the only morally correct action for a slave is to obey their master. That’s [explicitly what you said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715425&postcount=447). That’s friendly to slavers. Being friendly to slavers would mean _supporting_ the legality of slavery. Believing that the law should be obeyed is not the same thing as believing that that law is just or right. You are so convinced that you have the unilateral right to disobey any law you don’t like that you can’t differentiate between those two things. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7900 "2016-01-17T23:37:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ll take that as a “no, I have no actual experience with this and am just talking out of thin air”. I’ve been in fights, and been beaten, though not held down and beaten by many. I have spoken to people (who, unlike you, don’t have a history of lying and saying terrible and cowardly things) who have been similarly beaten, and they’ve told me that it’s not always possible to remain silent and still. > [@](#): > > Being friendly to slavers would mean _supporting_ the legality of slavery. Believing that the law should be obeyed is not the same thing as believing that that law is just or right. In this sense, it is. If you believe that an abominable law should be followed, then you are approving of that law. You are friendly to slavers because you believe that their slaves must obey them, and it’s wrong for slaves to resist or disobey them. No one I’ve ever met or spoken to is more friendly to slavers than you. Perhaps you could be an _even closer friend of slavers_ by advocating for the reinstatement of slavery, but your _insistence that slaves must obey their masters_ makes you slavers’ best friend on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7901 "2016-01-17T23:43:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you believe that an abominable law should be followed, then you are approving of that law. If you believe in law at all, then you are obligated to obey any and all laws that apply to you, regardless of what you think of them. To do otherwise is to assert that _any_ law can be disobeyed by _anyone_ if they don’t want to obey it. You can’t assert that human traffickers don’t have the right to disobey trafficking laws that they feel are unduly harmful to their business. You can’t assert that ISIS doesn’t have the right to fight against a government that violates God’s law. You can’t assert that pedophiles are obligated to obey consent laws that don’t take into account how “special” their relationship with their victims is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=394) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=396)