# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 399
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7962 "2016-01-22T05:19:23Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [The constable for the precinct of Raping-Lots-of-Women sentenced to 263 years of remorse](http://m.koco.com/news/fired-oklahoma-city-police-officer-to-be-sentenced-thursday-on-rape-convictions/37549198). So, at least once in a while, a police officer receives justice. > > But he will be out on parole in 80. Oh noes! How could this be! We know from **Smapti** that officers must be true! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7963 "2016-01-22T16:25:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I support civil asset forfeiture in principle. The ability to confiscate money and property acquired through crime or used for criminal purposes is a valid and useful weapon in the police’s arsenal. > > These kind of fishing expeditions, where people are being pulled over arbitrarily in hopes of finding some cash that they can “suspect” is drug money so they can seize it and keep it for themselves, however, is crossing the line and is not a valid use of police power. Traffic stops should absolutely not be treated like maritime prize courts. I blame the departments themselves for their greed, and the government for enabling this behavior by not properly funding the police and other social services (which also leads to traffic citations as a source of revenue) and in allowing the police to keep what they confiscate. I strongly support reforms that would require a stricter standard of proof before assets can be seized, reasonable limitations on the circumstances under which seizure can take place (confiscating a family home because the teenage son sold a nickel bag out of the garage = not cool), and I would require seizures to go into a fund that neither the department nor the municipal authority profits from and which cannot be used to cover local government expenditures. I don’t agree with everything you’ve written here, but I think you have a reasonable, sane position that you could logically defend. What I’m saying is: Who are you and what have you done with **Smapti**? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7964 "2016-01-24T01:29:41Z")
[Off-duty black cop killed by white cop](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/white-officer-kills-black-mistaking-criminal-article-1.372647). I don’t see how the white cop can be blamed. Shouldn’t the black cop have had a skin-lightening procedure, or just painted his face white? ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7965 "2016-01-24T01:41:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Off-duty black cop killed by white cop](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/white-officer-kills-black-mistaking-criminal-article-1.372647). I don’t see how the white cop can be blamed. Shouldn’t the black cop have had a skin-lightening procedure, or just painted his face white? You’ll be relieved to know that the NYPD did not blame the white cop but rather promoted him. The black cop is still dead. Bummer. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7966 "2016-01-24T16:07:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I support civil asset forfeiture in principle. The ability to confiscate money and property acquired through crime or used for criminal purposes is a valid and useful weapon in the police’s arsenal. > > These kind of fishing expeditions, where people are being pulled over arbitrarily in hopes of finding some cash that they can “suspect” is drug money so they can seize it and keep it for themselves, however, is crossing the line and is not a valid use of police power. Traffic stops should absolutely not be treated like maritime prize courts. I blame the departments themselves for their greed, and the government for enabling this behavior by not properly funding the police and other social services (which also leads to traffic citations as a source of revenue) and in allowing the police to keep what they confiscate. I strongly support reforms that would require a stricter standard of proof before assets can be seized, reasonable limitations on the circumstances under which seizure can take place (confiscating a family home because the teenage son sold a nickel bag out of the garage = not cool), and I would require seizures to go into a fund that neither the department nor the municipal authority profits from and which cannot be used to cover local government expenditures. Do you hold the same position on resisting arrest? Which is that, while it is a valid charge to bring in some instances, it’s also a massive loophole the police can use to essentially detain anyone and threaten them with additional charges, regardless of the actual truth value of the claim? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7967 "2016-01-24T16:25:47Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Do you hold the same position on resisting arrest? Which is that, while it is a valid charge to bring in some instances, it’s also a massive loophole the police can use to essentially detain anyone and threaten them with additional charges, regardless of the actual truth value of the claim? That’s certainly a possibility that the defendant can present to the jury in any given case. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7968 "2016-01-25T18:41:39Z")
A Toronto police officer has been [found guilty](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/verdict/article28370386/) of _attempted_ murder for shooting and killing a man who was armed with a knife, but surrounded and not in much of a position to harm anybody. I give credit to the prosecutor who ran the case – in his closing argument he even blasted the cops who testified for the defence – but how on earth can the jury justify a not-guilty verdict on second degree murder but a guilty verdict on attempted murder? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7969 "2016-01-25T18:55:10Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > …but how on earth can the jury justify a not-guilty verdict on second degree murder but a guilty verdict on attempted murder? They explain that in the story you linked to. The jury found that the officer’s first volley of three shots, which he fired while the victim was standing, was justified. It was this volley of shots that was the subject of the murder charge. The second volley of six shots, fired after the victim was on the ground, was the volley that resulted in the attempted murder charge. It’s not really clear from the story, but I assume that it was the first volley that killed the guy, and if that volley was justified, then you can’t convict the cop of murder. The second volley might not have killed the guy (he was probably already dead), but it was unnecessary and it did exhibit a desire to kill, so he was convicted of attempted murder for that volley. That’s how i interpret the story, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7970 "2016-01-25T20:24:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Off-duty black cop killed by white cop](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/white-officer-kills-black-mistaking-criminal-article-1.372647). I don’t see how the white cop can be blamed. Shouldn’t the black cop have had a skin-lightening procedure, or just painted his face white? > [@](#): > > “Police! Stop! Drop it!” cops from the 25th Precinct shouted at Omar Edwards, 25. > > As he started to turn toward him - the gun still in his hand - an officer opened fire, sources said. Problem is…this is the version of the police. Did any of the white cops see the person the black cop was chasing? I have to wonder, did anyone not wearing a badge hear 'Police! Stop! Drop it!" Given the behavior of some cops detailed in this thread, I have to ask if the black cop _really_ had his gun drawn? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7971 "2016-01-25T22:53:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > They explain that in the story you linked to. Hm. I believe that story was updated significantly since I read it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7972 "2016-01-26T00:42:36Z")
Did we do [this one](http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/minn-cop-blames-muscle-memory-after-dashcam-video-shows-him-shooting-unarmed-driver/) yet?[ > [@](#): > > Video published last week by KMSP shows Eden Prairie Police Sergeant Lonnie Soppeland engaged in pursuit of Matthew Hovland-Knase’s motorcycle at speeds that topped 110 miles per hour on June 20, 2015. > > After pulling over Hovland-Knase, Soppeland can be heard yelling for the suspect to “get your hands where I can see them.” > > Almost immediately, the sound of a gunshot is heard. > > “Sh_t! F_ck! F\*ck!” Soppeland curses. > > “Please help me!” Hovland-Knase begs as the officer approaches, holstering his gun to help the injured man steady the motorcycle. > > “Oh, sh_t!” the suspect moans. “What the f_ck, man?” > > Soppeland begins administering first aid after returning from his cruiser with medical supplies. > > “You actually shot me, didn’t you?” Hovland-Knase says. > > “I’m not going to say anything right now,” Soppeland explains. “But you know, it was not intentional, I can tell you that.” > [@](#): > > At the suggestion of the detectives, Soppeland agreed that a training exercise 20 days earlier was partially responsible for the incident. > > “Yes, I feel the muscle memory from that recent training of squeezing the trigger contributed to the unintentional discharge during a high stress situation,” he said. > > The Eden Prairie Police Department told KMSP that Soppeland had returned to duty after a “full investigation of the incident was completed by the Hennepin County Sheriff’s Office.” > > “Based on the findings of the investigation, no further disciplinary action was taken and Soppleand has returned to regular duties with the Eden Prairie Police Department,” a statement from the department noted. ]([Minn. cop blames 'muscle memory' after dashcam video shows him shooting unarmed driver](http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/minn-cop-blames-muscle-memory-after-dashcam-video-shows-him-shooting-unarmed-driver/))His buddies came up with an excuse, he accepted the excuse and his buddies decided not to punish him based on their excuse. Excellent police work all around, right **Smapti**? :dubious: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7973 "2016-01-26T00:47:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s certainly a possibility that the defendant can present to the jury in any given case. Just like they can present the possibility that the drug dog was lead? Or that the cop didn’t actually smell marijuana? These are the ultimate he-said/she-said things and cops know and rely on that to subvert the justice procedure. Besides, you know as well as anyone that these cases rarely go to trial and that prosecutors railroad people into plea bargaining to get them through the system faster, regardless of their guilt or innocence. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7974 "2016-01-26T14:59:54Z")
[http://registerguard.com/rg/news/local/33955359-75/federal-jury-rules-in-favor-of-speeding-motorcyclist-against-oregon-state-police-trooper.html.csp](http://registerguard.com/rg/news/local/33955359-75/federal-jury-rules-in-favor-of-speeding-motorcyclist-against-oregon-state-police-trooper.html.csp) > [@](#): > > A federal jury on Thursday ruled that Oregon State Police Capt. Rob Edwards violated a Eugene man’s civil rights by kicking him in the upper chest after chasing down his speeding motorcycle on Crow Road. First he rear-ends the stopped motorcycle with his car, then he gets out and kicks the guy. This cost the taxpayers $180k. Rob Edwards has since been promoted. > [@](#): > > [T]he [state police] agency “is disappointed with the (trial) outcome and feels the actions of our troopers clearly did not violate established procedures or tactics. In situations like these, officers have milliseconds to make what may be life-or-death decisions and those officers should be shielded from the liability of civil damages.” ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7975 "2016-01-26T19:36:26Z")
HA! Sure. Our officers should not be held accountable for their criminal behavior… Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7976 "2016-01-26T20:40:19Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > It gets worse. He was aquitted. > [http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/25/us/cleveland-police-verdict-up-to-speed/](http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/25/us/cleveland-police-verdict-up-to-speed/) > > He fired 34 times, then climbed up on the hood of the car (if he was in fear for his life, this seems like a strange tactic) and fired 15 more times through the windshield at an unarmed couple. This officer was responsible for only 49 of the 137 bullets the police fired at the car. > > So, we need to ask ourselves: > > Do cops no longer utter the phrase 'Come out with your hands up? > Should we be happy that the other 12 officers fired only 7 shots each (on average) > Was Smapti on this particular jury? > Did the prosecutor throw the case? > Is there simply no justice? UPDATE! > **[6 Cleveland police officers fired for actions in fatal 2012 chase | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/26/us/cleveland-police-officers-fired-chase/index.html)** > > Six Cleveland police officers have been fired in connection with a 2012 car chase that ended with officers firing 137 bullets at a car, union president says. Six cops involved in the chase were fired. The Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association thinks it’s an outrage! > [@](#): > > _I’m not going to stand for it," Loomis said._ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7977 "2016-01-27T02:00:22Z")
Progress: Fall River MA citizen [George Thompson awarded $72.5K as compensation for a “wiretapping” arrest (video recording an officer without express permission)](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/man-arrested-jailed-for-filming-cop-settles-lawsuit-and-gets-72500/). The “wiretapping” charge was dropped due to lack of evidence: the police attempted to access the phone, but after the 10th incorrect password entry, the phone automatically bricked itself (well, not quite “bricked”, but restored to a blank state). The officer being recorded had threatened Thompson that he would repeatedly cruise by his house and “fuck him hard on paper” (fabricate a very bad report); Thompson was manhandled by the officer when the officer saw him recording. > [@](#): > > The Fall River Police Department initially said the incident was Thompson’s fault. > > “Plaintiff’s injuries and or damages, if any, were proximately caused by his own negligent or intentional conduct and/or by the conduct of others, and not by the conduct of Thomas Barboza,” according to the department … (Barboza) maintained that he “at all times acted in good faith upon reasonable belief… that his actions were in accordance with the Constitution and laws of the United States and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.” ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7978 "2016-01-27T11:42:49Z")
[One killed](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/27/oregon-militia-standoff-lavoy-finicum-killed-police-malheur-wildlife-refuge) in the Oregon militia standoff. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7979 "2016-01-27T12:52:25Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > [One killed](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/27/oregon-militia-standoff-lavoy-finicum-killed-police-malheur-wildlife-refuge) in the Oregon militia standoff. And the controversy would be…? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7980 "2016-01-27T13:44:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And the controversy would be…? Did you read the article? > [@Guardian article](#): > > “They shot him in cold blood,” said Cliven Bundy, Ammon’s father. Of course, Mr Ammon is white, so the BLM people aren’t making any noise, and is a member of a right-wing militia, so the liberals aren’t making any noise either. ETA: Yes, my post was terse - I was short on time. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/7981 "2016-01-27T13:54:45Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Did you read the article? > > Of course, Mr Ammon is white, so the BLM people aren’t making any noise, and is a member of a right-wing militia, so the liberals aren’t making any noise either. > > ETA: Yes, my post was terse - I was short on time. That’s cool, you fit in all the bullshit you needed to in the allotted time period. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=398) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=400)