# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 412
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8222 "2016-05-16T18:30:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Resisted _what_, moron? They couldn’t legally detain her. A police officer can’t legally detain people? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8223 "2016-05-16T18:34:00Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > She didn’t resist, moron. > [@](#): > > As the officer appears to take a notebook from his chest pocket, Tillman can be seen in the video trying to pedal away. You’re saying the Seattle Times made this up, then? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8224 "2016-05-16T18:35:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’re saying the Seattle Times made this up, then? That’s not resisting, broken man. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8225 "2016-05-16T18:35:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > A police officer can’t legally detain people? Can a police officer unlawfully assault someone? In the specific case we’re discussing, did the girl resist arrest or assault the police officer? Are these things discussed in the link you yourself provided? Is someone who claims the girl assaulted the officer (having red the link and knowing that she did not in fact assault him) a lying sack of shit? Are you, by your answers to the preceding questions, a lying sack of shit? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8226 "2016-05-16T18:37:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’re saying the Seattle Times made this up, then? Under the rule of law, and the presumption of innocence, she did not in fact resist arrest or assault him, you lying sack of shit. You piece of shit. You lying asshole. You worthless lying douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8227 "2016-05-16T18:37:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > A police officer can’t legally detain people? He was moonlighting as a mall cop, which you have already been told several times. That is a private security officer with the same legal rights to arrest as a common citizen. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8228 "2016-05-16T18:42:16Z")
Lying is par for the course for the broken human **Smapti**. He has lied multiple times throughout this thread, always in a way that justifies abuse by authority. I feel sadness and pity for the broken human **Smapti**. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8229 "2016-05-16T19:02:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He was moonlighting as a mall cop, which you have already been told several times. That is a private security officer with the same legal rights to arrest as a common citizen. Moonlighting as a mall cop doesn’t mean he ceases to be a cop cop. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Under the rule of law, and the presumption of innocence, she did not in fact resist arrest or assault him This is not a logical statement. Your logic would mean nobody can ever be accused of a crime. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Can a police officer unlawfully assault someone? In the specific case we’re discussing, did the girl resist arrest or assault the police officer? Are these things discussed in the link you yourself provided? Is someone who claims the girl assaulted the officer (having red the link and knowing that she did not in fact assault him) a lying sack of shit? Are you, by your answers to the preceding questions, a lying sack of shit? In order; yes, yes, yes, mu, mu. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8230 "2016-05-16T19:08:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > This is not a logical statement. Your logic would mean nobody can ever be accused of a crime. You fucking idiot. How the fuck can you claim to venerate the rule of law when you don’t understand the concept of presumption of innocence? The concept that underlies our entire fucking legal system? Let me clarify it for you, you fucking moron: A person is not guilty of a crime unless they have been convicted of that crime in court of law. You imbecile. The girl was not convicted of assault or resisting arrest, therefore she is not guilty of assault or resting arrest, you fucking simpleton. The judge dropped the charges, therefore she is not guilty of any crime, you fucking half-wit. > [@](#): > > In order; yes, yes, yes, mu, mu. Try again, you stupid fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8231 "2016-05-16T19:41:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He was moonlighting as a mall cop, which you have already been told several times. That is a private security officer with the same legal rights to arrest as a common citizen. I’m not sure this is true, but I could be wrong. I would think that a sworn police officer is still a police officer with the same powers off duty as on duty. So long as as the officer has not been suspended, the cop powers are still his after he punches out for the day. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8232 "2016-05-16T19:49:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The girl was not convicted of assault or resisting arrest, therefore she is not guilty of assault or resting arrest, you fucking simpleton. The judge dropped the charges, therefore she is not guilty of any crime, you fucking half-wit. When did I ever claim she’d been convicted of anything? If someone says OJ Simpson is a murderer, are they a “lying half-witch” because he wasn’t convicted of murder? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8233 "2016-05-16T19:50:41Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I’m not sure this is true, but I could be wrong. > > I would think that a sworn police officer is still a police officer with the same powers off duty as on duty. So long as as the officer has not been suspended, the cop powers are still his after he punches out for the day. When you are stopped by a couple of mall cops you have no idea what their other job is, so even if one of them is an off-duty cop at some other time of the day. As far as she was concerned she: 1. Wasn’t doing anything illegal, so they had no right to stop her, and 2. Wasn’t doing anything illegal, so they had no right to detain her. Once again, _what arrest was she resisting?_ ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8234 "2016-05-16T19:55:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > When did I ever claim she’d been convicted of anything? > > If someone says OJ Simpson is a murderer, are they a “lying half-witch” because he wasn’t convicted of murder? So when you were claiming she resisted arrest and assaulted the officer, you were just trolling? Clarify for me: did the girl commit assault, in the legal sense? Did the girl resist arrest, in the legal sense? If you know she didn’t commit assault or resist arrest, in the legal sense, then justify the officer’s actions. When you justified the officer’s actions by claiming the girl shouldn’t have resisted arrest, even though you knew she hadn’t resisted arrest in the legal sense, were you trolling or stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8235 "2016-05-16T20:02:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When you are stopped by a couple of mall cops you have no idea what their other job is He was wearing a Tacoma PD uniform and driving a Tacoma PD squad car. That’s a pretty good clue as to what his day job is. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Clarify for me: did the girl commit assault, in the legal sense? Did the girl resist arrest, in the legal sense? It is my assessment based on the available evidence that she did. That assessment has nothing to do with whether she was actually convicted. I am not a judge; I am not empowered to issue a legally binding finding of fact. Ken Lay, OJ Simpson, Richard Nixon, Al Capone, and many other men were never convicted of crimes they are widely believed to have committed; that does not mean they are innocent or that it is a lie to say they broke the law. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8236 "2016-05-16T20:06:53Z")
What “arrest” was she resisting? The _off-duty_ said he was “trespassing” her-all that means is that the NEXT time she came on the property she could be arrested. At the time of the incident there was no _legal_ reason to detain her or her companion. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8237 "2016-05-16T20:12:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It is my assessment based on the available evidence that she did. Your assessment is factually wrong. Let me clarify for you because you are a moron: Under the law, the girl is absolutely and indisputably not guilty of assault or resisting arrest. Only a moron would dispute this. You dispute this because you are a moron. QED. I’m assuming you know that you got caught in a lie, and you are now furiously making shit up because you got caught in a lie. You are replacing the rule of law with your moral understanding of what the law is, which is what you spend your day arguing against. You spend half your time claiming that rule of law is absolute, and the remainder of your time lying about the rules of law. You are a mentally ill lying little shitbag. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8238 "2016-05-16T20:23:10Z")
She wasn’t being arrested. She was being trespassed, which is the equivalent of being kicked off the property and being told not to come back. How the hell can you resist a trespass-by _refusing_ to leave, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8239 "2016-05-16T20:26:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > She wasn’t being arrested. She was being trespassed, which is the equivalent of being kicked off the property and being told not to come back. How the hell can you resist a trespass-by _refusing_ to leave, maybe? Right. This is assault and false imprisonment on a person who was attempting to leave a place she was not welcome, just so they could file the proper paperwork. Geez, just get a picture of her and post it in your office like we did. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8240 "2016-05-16T21:08:16Z")
Ladies and gentlemen, I’ll be brief. The issue here is not whether the police broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with suspects–they did. But you can’t hold a whole policing system responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole policing system? And, if the whole policing system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our law enforcement institutions in general? I put it to you, **Dopers** , isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can say whatever you want to **Smapti** , but he’s not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8241 "2016-05-16T21:17:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Let me clarify for you because you are a moron: Under the law, the girl is absolutely and indisputably not guilty of assault or resisting arrest. Only a moron would dispute this. You dispute this because you are a moron. QED. I have not disputed that she has not been found guilty of anything. > [@](#): > > You spend half your time claiming that rule of law is absolute, and the remainder of your time lying about the rules of law. I know of no law that forbids me from believing someone who has not been found guilty is in fact guilty. Can you provide me with one? I repeat the question you haven’t answered yet - is it a lie to say OJ Simpson is a murderer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=411) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=413)