# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 420
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8382 "2016-07-15T22:04:38Z")
Did we do [Dylan Noble](http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/386c25518f464186bf7a2ac026580ce7/Article_2016-07-14-US--Fresno-Fatal%20Police%20Shooting/id-be083183448e4364a01fb6d1657b4544)?[ > [@](#): > > Police in Fresno, California, say they were looking for a man with a rifle last month when Dylan Noble sped by in his black pickup truck. After a half-mile chase, the 19-year-old pulled into a Chevron station, where officers quickly confronted him, demanding he put his hands up. Noble got out of the truck, moved toward the officers, and ignored repeated warnings to stop reaching into his waistband, the cops claim. > > The officers proceeded to put two bullets into Noble’s body before moving closer, issuing another command for him to put his hands down, and pumping two more––including a shotgun blast––into the teen after he was down, as the Associated Press reports. ]([http://www.vice.com/read/dylan-noble-police-shooting-fresno-california](http://www.vice.com/read/dylan-noble-police-shooting-fresno-california)) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8383 "2016-07-15T22:08:23Z")
Noble was also still trying to reach for something under his shirt while he was lying on the ground, although the Fresno Police Chief says he didn’t think they should have shot him while he was on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8384 "2016-07-15T22:19:07Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Noble was also still trying to reach for something under his shirt while he was lying on the ground, although the Fresno Police Chief says he didn’t think they should have shot him while he was on the ground. I read in one article he said he “hates his life”, so maybe it was suicide by cop. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8385 "2016-07-15T22:23:19Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Noble was also still trying to reach for something under his shirt while he was lying on the ground, although the Fresno Police Chief says he didn’t think they should have shot him while he was on the ground. I cannot view the video at work. Can anyone tell me if he is actually reaching into his waistband in ‘drawing a concealed weapon’ kind of way? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8386 "2016-07-15T22:24:04Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Noble was also still trying to reach for something under his shirt while he was lying on the ground, although the Fresno Police Chief says he didn’t think they should have shot him while he was on the ground. Cite that he was reaching for something under his shirt while on the ground? I haven’t read that anywhere. > [@](#): > > One officer shot him twice as Noble yelled that he hated his life. He was still moving his arms, and officers were still shouting for him to stop, as he lay on the ground. Another shot from the same officer and a fourth from a second officer finally made him stop. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8387 "2016-07-15T22:36:20Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite that he was reaching for something under his shirt while on the ground? I haven’t read that anywhere. [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/us/video-is-released-in-police-shooting-of-dylan-noble-in-fresno.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/us/video-is-released-in-police-shooting-of-dylan-noble-in-fresno.html) > [@](#): > > While on his back, Mr. Noble’s arms move near his waistband and shirt, and the officers tell him to stop reaching or he will be shot again. Two more shots are fired. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8388 "2016-07-15T22:56:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Does anyone doubt that if there were no video, that guy would go to prison? Does anyone doubt that for every incident like this caught on video, there are orders of magnitude more that aren’t? I learned about the story from Reddit. For once, the majority of commentors aren’t siding with the cops. They actually see the bullshit for what it is. I hope young Patrick’s life isn’t flushed down the toilet by this madness. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8389 "2016-07-15T23:01:38Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/us/video-is-released-in-police-shooting-of-dylan-noble-in-fresno.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/us/video-is-released-in-police-shooting-of-dylan-noble-in-fresno.html) Nope, still not seeing that he was reaching for something. “Arms moving” is not “reaching” and considering that officers have everything to gain and nothing to lose by lying and making shit up (see **monstro** ’s link above, for example), I’m not willing to accept the officer’s characterization of the possible intent of the man they just shot dead, thus giving them a lot of incentive to say things that make their actions look acceptable. [“It’s coming right for us!”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6kKhlX8vU) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8390 "2016-07-16T02:01:15Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I love how the officer continues to repeat his story of “we asked for ID and he didn’t want to show it” over and over and over and assuring people over and over “it’s all on video”… some people think that if you tell a lie often enough, it becomes true. Just watched the video. It starts out OK. Cop offer’s polite pleasantry. But then he doesn’t state what he’s there for. Shouldn’t that been what he starts with? “We’re here to execute an arrest warrant for _whoever_. (maybe hold up a picture of him?) What is _your_ name? Can I see some ID?” That difuses the situation, doesn’t it?? The kid is startled and confused. As well he should be. I would confused and agitated as hell. The cops are confused and should NOT be. Worse, they don’t believe they are. And fuck the guy who started with “Tase him!” He may as well have shouted _'Respect my Authoritah!"_ You tase people who are a threat, not people who aren’t cooperating fast enough. That guy should lose his job. They need to see that their cops are better trained. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8391 "2016-07-16T02:07:19Z")
> [@](#): > > The kid is startled and confused. As well he should be. I would confused and agitated as hell. “I hate my fucking life” is not startled and confused. It’s suicide by cop. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8392 "2016-07-16T02:31:50Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > “I hate my fucking life” is not startled and confused. It’s suicide by cop. 2 different incidents. ETA: I don’t know if the kid in Fresno deserved to be shot, but he was far from cooperative with the police. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8393 "2016-07-16T03:52:49Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > 2 different incidents. > > ETA: I don’t know if the kid in Fresno deserved to be shot, but he was far from cooperative with the police. No, I’m still talking about Noble. That was Fresno. That was suicide by cop. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8394 "2016-07-16T07:57:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Nope, still not seeing that he was reaching for something. “Arms moving” is not “reaching” and considering that officers have everything to gain and nothing to lose by lying and making shit up (see **monstro** ’s link above, for example), I’m not willing to accept the officer’s characterization of the possible intent of the man they just shot dead, thus giving them a lot of incentive to say things that make their actions look acceptable. > > [“It’s coming right for us!”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6kKhlX8vU) Sorry,\*\* Snowboarder Bo\*\*, but I think this was suicide by cop. I’ve been very critical of shootings in this thread, but the cops gave this guy ample warnings. Maybe the shots fired when the guy was on the ground were un-warranted, but I’m not a LEO in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8395 "2016-07-16T10:23:55Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Sorry,\*\* Snowboarder Bo\*\*, but I think this was suicide by cop. > > I’ve been very critical of shootings in this thread, but the cops gave this guy ample warnings. Maybe the shots fired when the guy was on the ground were un-warranted, but I’m not a LEO in that situation. I made no comment about whether or not the opening salvo was justified, nor is that the focus of the perceived grievance as I understand it. The main concern isn’t “did they need to shoot him at all” (although I think there are a lot of valid points to be made there , perhaps on both sides); AFAICT the main concern is “is it all reasonable to think that he possibly could have posed a threat after being shot twice and writhing on the ground such that he needed to be executed on the spot by the men wearing body armor rather than apprehended”. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8396 "2016-07-16T13:06:36Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > No, I’m still talking about Noble. That was Fresno. That was suicide by cop. Yes, I understand that. However, startled and confused relates to the Georgia incident. Unless you think that Noble was also startled and confused. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8397 "2016-07-16T21:01:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I made no comment about whether or not the opening salvo was justified, nor is that the focus of the perceived grievance as I understand it. The main concern isn’t “did they need to shoot him at all” (although I think there are a lot of valid points to be made there , perhaps on both sides); AFAICT the main concern is “is it all reasonable to think that he possibly could have posed a threat after being shot twice and writhing on the ground such that he needed to be executed on the spot by the men wearing body armor rather than apprehended”. Sorry if I inferred something you didn’t mean. In this case, I believe the police responded to a report of a person with a firearm, so I think they had reason to wonder what the guy kept reaching for. Interesting video: [Bill Maher: “Police Culture Has To Change”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXvVnvQOMQ0) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8398 "2016-07-16T21:15:57Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > And fuck the guy who started with “Tase him!” He may as well have shouted _'Respect my Authoritah!"_ You tase people who are a threat, not people who aren’t cooperating fast enough. That guy should lose his job. They need to see that their cops are better trained. Actually,as I believe we’ve documented many times on the SDMB, tasers are a means of gaining compliance; no threat, perceived or imminent or even real, needs to be present for an officer to legally cause a person excruciating pain with possibly lethal consequences, (i.e., tase someone). ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8399 "2016-07-17T14:04:12Z")
[http://artandeverythingafter.com/i-fit-the-description/](http://artandeverythingafter.com/i-fit-the-description/) This makes me angry. And it makes me sad. And it leaves a knot in my stomach. And I hope that if I come across something like this I’ll stand and witness like the woman did for him. But I don’t know how to change it. … and I’m wondering why the cop that saw him park his car decided to question him. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8400 "2016-07-17T14:10:54Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > [http://artandeverythingafter.com/i-fit-the-description/](http://artandeverythingafter.com/i-fit-the-description/) > > This makes me angry. And it makes me sad. And it leaves a knot in my stomach. And I hope that if I come across something like this I’ll stand and witness like the woman did for him. But I don’t know how to change it. > > … and I’m wondering why the cop that saw him park his car decided to question him. > > :mad: He does a very good job of explaining the overwhelming bone-shaking terror that can lead to physical resistance to the cops. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8401 "2016-07-17T14:39:35Z")
[Here’s body-cam video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQS3YrEhdFo) for the Georgia travesty against Patrick Mumford. When will these outrages cease? The victim was booked for misdemeanor obstruction (being black in the presence of a cop?) which may ruin his hope of getting his life back together. If there’s a glimmer of humanity anywhere in the Georgia system the obstruction charge should be dismissed quickly. I’m not holding my breath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=419) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=421)