# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 423
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8442 "2016-07-22T02:16:46Z")
When one thinks of a _police state_, one thinks of governments unconstitutionally controlling the population through police. The USA, however, has redefined the term, for in the USA the police shoot people simply because it was what they do – a much more pure example of a _police state_. > **[American police kill civilians at a shocking rate compared to other developed...](https://www.dailynews.com/2015/05/04/american-police-kill-civilians-at-a-shocking-rate-compared-to-other-developed-countries/)** > > It’s official: 25-year-old Freddie Gray’s death was a homicide, according to Baltimore State Attorney Marilyn Mosby. Criminal charges will now be brought against the six police office… > [@](#): > > And here are some other comparisons published in a study by the Danish police on firearm use between 1996 and 2006. > > They identified the number of people killed by police in several European countries and accounted for population by giving the number of people killed per one million residents. They used population figures from the year 2000. > > Here’s what they found: > > • Denmark: number of people killed by police between 1996 and 2006: 11 people — number of people killed per one million residents: .187 people > > • Sweden: 13 people — .133 people > > • Norway: 3 people — .060 people > > • Finland: 2 people — .034 people > > • Germany: 81 people — .089 people > > • The Netherlands: 24 people — .137 people > > • England/Wales: 25 people — .042 people > > If we take Five Thirty Eight’s estimate that 1,000 people are killed by police in the United States every year and divide it by the 2000 population of 282 million, the American situation for just one year would look like this: > > US: 10,000 people killed — 35.5 killed for every one million residents You know, if the USA stopped worshiping guns, dumped the second amendment, and joined the rest of the first world by instituting real gun control, then eventually the police would not have to be trained to shoot first and make excuses later, and instead could serve and protect the public rather than kill the public. It’s rather ironic that the USA keeps Trumpeting “Freedom”, when in fact it is a murderous _police state_ when compared against the first world. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8443 "2016-07-22T03:33:50Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This happened a few years ago, but it’s still quite horrible. > > [Cops beat an obviously frightened woman down to her underwear and pepper-spray her in front of her crying children, then pin trumped-up murder charges on her.](http://thefreethoughtproject.com/horrifying-dashcam-shows-psycho-cops-laugh-pepper-spray-baby-beat-innocent-mom/#fBQvVEpv7ovPHEqp.16) > > These cops are still patrolling the streets, folks. Unfortunately, police work does seem to attract some deficient personalities. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8444 "2016-07-22T03:49:30Z")
I only browse these threads and happened to note this exchange just because it was at the top of the page. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Well _you_ could have just communicated effectively, negating the need for me to say anything at all, but that was beyond your abilities that day; here’s hoping that someday we find you doing better at that. > > Keep striving and improving, **monstro**! We all support your efforts in this! The distinction between “charges not filed” and “charges filed but dropped” is, at a legitimate practical level, of only minor importance. To correct this slight error, e.g. with a short simple sentence as **monstro** demonstrates, would have been a useful contribution. To instead write “that isn’t what the article says AT ALL” _ **without even identifying the error** _ is the act of a pissant pedant with a stick stuck up your rectum so far you conflate defecation with speech. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8445 "2016-07-22T04:37:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I only browse these threads and happened to note this exchange just because it was at the top of the page. > > The distinction between “charges not filed” and “charges filed but dropped” is, at a legitimate practical level, of only minor importance. To correct this slight error, e.g. with a short simple sentence as **monstro** demonstrates, would have been a useful contribution. To instead write “that isn’t what the article says AT ALL” _ **without even identifying the error** _ is the act of a pissant pedant with a stick stuck up your rectum so far you conflate defecation with speech. > > Hope this helps. No; you’re wrong. There’s a world of difference between “charges filed and 2 trials held” and “charges not filed”, which is what happened here. The fact that the two of you can only fall to trying to critique the way I critiqued **monstro** is pathetic. Get over it: she fucked up and I called her on it so she could correct herself. Then she chose not to review her cite or her post. Her choices. If she had only been clear and/or known what the hell she was talking about, we wouldn’t have to go thru this idiotic hijack at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8446 "2016-07-22T09:11:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Nope. You do realise that the standard at which you can act in self defence is _much_ lower than that at which you can be convicted of a crime, right? The two situations are not comparable. I reckon that should a black person try to defend himself from a policeman that standard is going to be pretty fucking high. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8447 "2016-07-22T12:01:50Z")
[Police union president says that the bullet that struck the North Miami therapist was intended to protect him.](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91160077.html) How he can say this when 1) the therapist was hand-cuffed and detained right after the shooting, 2) the scary autistic guy he was presumably being protected against wasn’t treated in a similar fashion, and 3) the cop admitted he didn’t know why he shot at him?? And lemme get something else straight. The president seems to think it’s not fucked up at all that the officer was aiming for the autistic dude. If he had shot that autistic dude, does he really think people would be MORE sympathetic and understanding? Maybe he’s right, but that’s fucked up. Situations like this scare me. If someone wants to take you out of this world, all they have to do is call the police when you’re in your front yard and claim that you’ve got a gun, looking menacing. Then the executioners in blue will be dispatched, your obituary out the next day. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8448 "2016-07-22T12:07:12Z")
At some point we as a nation need to step up and say we’re not OK with extra-judicial killings by police over matters that do not even remotely approach capital crimes. I’m perfectly content to frame this as a Constitutional Crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8449 "2016-07-22T12:09:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Police union president says that the bullet that struck the North Miami therapist was intended to protect him.](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91160077.html) > > How he can say this when 1) the therapist was hand-cuffed and detained right after the shooting, 2) the scary autistic guy he was presumably being protected against wasn’t treated in a similar fashion, and 3) the cop admitted he didn’t know why he shot at him??(snip) And it took the police union two days to come up with this explanation. 48 hours to come up with a lame piece of bullshit like that. If it weren’t so obvious that they made that shit up I’d say you can’t make this shit up. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8450 "2016-07-22T12:15:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The president seems to think it’s not fucked up at all that the officer was aiming for the autistic dude. If he had shot that autistic dude, does he really think people would be MORE sympathetic and understanding? Maybe he’s right, but that’s fucked up. I don’t for one second see how anyone can keep a straight face while passing out the bullshit that guy did. “Trying to safe his life.” Yeah, he was so obviously in danger from a toy truck. Also, saying that the cop may not have been in position to know what was going on doesn’t help either. I guess that when cops can’t hear what someone is saying they frequently fire a shot to get attention. _BANG_ “Speak up!” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8451 "2016-07-22T12:16:54Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8452 "2016-07-22T12:20:59Z")
nm EDIT: something funny going on ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8453 "2016-07-22T12:22:37Z")
**monstro’s** link isn’t working for me, so I’m trying to post one that works. [Trying again.](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91160077.html) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8454 "2016-07-22T12:24:16Z")
I agree with **monstro** that the explanation is absolutely ridiculous, and so is the officer’s statement. Why can’t a police officer just say “I screwed up”? I understand people make mistakes, but why don’t the cops that make mistakes have the honor and decency to admit them? Shame on them (cops who shoot people by mistake without admitting it and apologizing). ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8455 "2016-07-22T12:37:32Z")
I guess that does explain why cops fire 5 or 6 times. They are such bad aims that they can’t even hit what they are aiming at. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8456 "2016-07-22T12:47:10Z")
Well, 20 years ago when I lived 2 miles from a range, I spent a lot of time shooting next to both cops and the occasional gang member. I’m no marksman, sniper or top shot, but I was better than every goddamned one of them and it was really an eye opener. I trust myself more with a gun than I do 99% of the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8457 "2016-07-22T13:27:50Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I reckon that should a black person try to defend himself from a policeman that standard is going to be pretty fucking high. Probably, unfortunately. But someone needing to defend themselves from a policeman is a rare occurrence, as when they are detaining you or arresting you you’re required to go along with it. Whether or not it’s a legitimate arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8458 "2016-07-22T13:28:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree with **monstro** that the explanation is absolutely ridiculous, and so is the officer’s statement. Why can’t a police officer just say “I screwed up”? I understand people make mistakes, but why don’t the cops that make mistakes have the honor and decency to admit them? Shame on them (cops who shoot people by mistake without admitting it and apologizing). Cops… honor and decency… cops, honor and decency… one of these is not like the other, one of these things just doesn’t belong… ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8459 "2016-07-22T14:21:51Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > I guess that does explain why cops fire 5 or 6 times. They are such bad aims that they can’t even hit what they are aiming at. I recall a police shooting in front of the Empire State Building ten, or so, years ago. Two cops killed a dangerous murderer who had a gun and was threatening to do more killing. So far so good. But they wounded nine other people - innocent people - in the process. Panic firing, I suppose. I’d blame that on under-training. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8460 "2016-07-22T14:26:46Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > I recall a police shooting in front of the Empire State Building ten, or so, years ago. Two cops killed a dangerous murderer who had a gun and was threatening to do more killing. So far so good. But they wounded nine other people - innocent people - in the process. Panic firing, I suppose. I’d blame that on under-training. This is the police equivalent to nuking them from orbit, just to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8461 "2016-07-22T14:43:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Nope. You do realise that the standard at which you can act in self defence is _much_ lower than that at which you can be convicted of a crime, right? The two situations are not comparable. What I (and, I’m sure, others) do realize is that you’re an apologist for unprovoked police violence against minorities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=422) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=424)