# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 430
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8582 "2016-08-10T16:31:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [The Justice Dept’s report](http://www.vox.com/2016/8/10/12418428/baltimore-police-investigation-justice-department-report) on Baltimore’s police looks pretty damning based on my reading so far, though I haven’t read the whole report yet. Some examples: more random searches on black people with less cause and less findings of contraband; Baltimore cops escalate encounters to violence without reason; they had been warned of dangerous transportation practices prior to Freddie Gray’s death; and they don’t seriously investigate sexual assault reports. None of this is especially surprising. I left Baltimore 8 years ago, and while i was living there the cops routinely made unconstitutional arrests of young black men. The States Attorney at the time had to repeatedly go to the police department, and to the city council, to lecture them about the unconstitutionality of loitering arrests. Her department was releasing hundreds of arrestees a year without charges, because they had been unlawfully arrested. In August 2005, almost 9,000 people were taken to central booking in Baltimore. Of those, 1882 cases: > [@](#): > > fit under the heading “could not prove,” including 408 drug cases, 248 arrests for trespassing, and 845 loitering cases. > > Jessamy referred to five individuals she said police had arrested for leaning on a car. The police “said they had warned them the day before” not to loiter there, Jessamy told the legislators. “This arrest should not have taken place.” > > \ > > Minutes after Hamm’s testimony, Jessamy told the state legislators that despite the program to train police in avoiding violations of the Fourth and Fifth amendments, the number of cases her office has had to decline to prosecute has increased. “We have given the declines to the police and built a training program around them,” Jessamy said. “Unfortunately, the number of declines are not decreasing because of this.” > > Jessamy said that when she started the training in 2000 the rate of cases declined was about 15 percent. “Sometimes now it’s up to 33, 34 percent,” she said. “There is no law against citizens standing in the street leaning on a car.” And from another story: > [@](#): > > Mrs. Jones is Baltimore City Councilman James B. Kraft’s shorthand for the upstanding citizen who wants the boys taken off the corner. The 1st District Democrat says he hears every month from constituents who complain about drug dealing or other activities. > > So city police officers arrest the men on the corner. They arrest everyone on the street, and all the people sitting on the stoops. If they don’t find any drugs, they charge the arrestees with loitering or failure to obey a police officer and take them to Central Booking. “Many of those loitering arrests are just getting those people off the streets,” Kraft says, “because that’s what the community wants to do.” > > Then these arrestees—about 1,800 of them every month—are released without formal charges being filed. The numbers of arrests—and the percentage of those released without charges—has been increasing steadily since 2002. Last week The Sun reported that figures for July 2005 were the highest since June 2002, when these figures began being compiled, with 2,824 cases going uncharged out of 7,697 arrests. > > \ > > Arrestees now receive a form that allows them to request expungement, though they have to give up their right to sue the department for false arrest, Warren Brown says. > > \ > > Because the Supreme Court has found the underlying law invalid, anyone in Baltimore—or anywhere else—arrested for loitering (and not additionally charged with prostitution or drug offenses) is by definition falsely arrested. > > Rocah explained that a second big category of arrests that go uncharged is for “failure to obey” a police officer. “The average officer in Baltimore doesn’t have a clue as to what constitutes a lawful failure-to-obey arrest,” Rocah said. “They think that if they tell someone to do something, and they don’t do it, then they can arrest them. That’s not the law.” The stories that i took those quotes from are no longer available online. I’m actually quoting from a [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8686811#post8686811) i made back in 2007. > [@PastTense](#): > > The Baltimore mayor is black, the police chief is black, the city council is 2/3 black. Since Baltimore blacks are in control, they can have any kind of police force they want–and the current situation is what they have chosen. This is idiotic. Part of the fundamental problem with police departments is that they have a culture that does not necessarily change just because some of the people in charge happen to be black. Firstly, there are black officers who are just as bad as white officers when it comes to excessive use of force and other unlawful or prohibited conduct. Look at the cops involved in the Freddie Gray case. It’s not just white and black; it’s blue and black. Also, just because some officials are black doesn’t mean that everything changes, and nor does it mean that “they” (i.e., the black community of Baltimore) are any more in charge of the police force than they were when it was run by whites. Black leaders and officials, just like white leaders and officials, feel pressure from all sorts of constituencies, including citizens, police unions, churches, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8583 "2016-08-11T22:32:04Z")
[Racism in prosecution?](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/mom-in-hot-car-death-wants-charges-against-father-dropped/ar-BBvur2b) Two different parents in different counties, within two weeks of each other, are stupid enough to leave their small child in the car in the heat. They both said they ‘forgot’ about the child being in the car. Both children die as a result. Frankly, both should be horsewhipped with a horsewhip. The circumstances are nearly identical. But the State has charged one parent with manslaughter. The other, not charged with anything. > [@](#): > > Evans said he took the case to the grand jury “because of the facts of the case.” He declined to elaborate further, citing a pending trial. You already see where this is going. The facts are that the parent charged with manslaughter is a black male. The parent not charged at all is a white female. Now, I have no problem with the manslaughter charge. The problem is with the white woman getting a pass. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8584 "2016-08-11T23:15:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Also, just because some officials are black doesn’t mean that everything changes, and nor does it mean that “they” (i.e., the black community of Baltimore) are any more in charge of the police force than they were when it was run by whites. Black leaders and officials, just like white leaders and officials, feel pressure from all sorts of constituencies, including citizens, police unions, churches, etc. Oh yeah? Then how do you explain the fact that racism in the US ended when Obama was elected President? ETA Source: Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8585 "2016-08-11T23:24:15Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > They need to clean house and fire these motherfuckers. Enmasse. Because that worked so well for Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8586 "2016-08-11T23:49:05Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Frankly, both should be horsewhipped with a horsewhip. What else would you horse whip someone with? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8587 "2016-08-12T00:33:27Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The Baltimore mayor is black, the police chief is black, the city council is 2/3 black. Since Baltimore blacks are in control, they can have any kind of police force they want–and the current situation is what they have chosen. Because identifying the race of a handful of people means: 1. Racism doesn’t exist. 2. All injustice is caused by racism. 3. There can be no injustices. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8588 "2016-08-12T13:25:49Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The Baltimore mayor is black, the police chief is black, the city council is 2/3 black. Since Baltimore blacks are in control, they can have any kind of police force they want–and the current situation is what they have chosen. That some officials are black doesn’t mean that “Baltimore blacks” are in control. Neither politics and governing nor race work that way. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8589 "2016-08-12T16:33:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [The Justice Dept’s report](http://www.vox.com/2016/8/10/12418428/baltimore-police-investigation-justice-department-report) on Baltimore’s police looks pretty damning based on my reading so far, though I haven’t read the whole report yet. Some examples: more random searches on black people with less cause and less findings of contraband; Baltimore cops escalate encounters to violence without reason; they had been warned of dangerous transportation practices prior to Freddie Gray’s death; and they don’t seriously investigate sexual assault reports. I’ve just finished reading the whole 163 pages, and i highly recommend it to anyone who desires a spike in blood pressure, and the barely-controllable urge to put your fist through a wall. If i were to run into a Baltimore police officer right now, i’d be very hard pressed to restrain myself from asking him or her how it feels to work for a criminal organization. For me, the most damning parts of the report were not the descriptions of individual cases of unconstitutional stops or illegal strip searches or arrests without probable cause or excessive force. Those were all pretty bad, but taken as a group, they could merely be evidence of a few bad apples in an otherwise OK police department. The most damning part of the report was the finding, reiterated time and again, that the poor practices of the police department were endemic, and were the ongoing result of the fact that basically no-one in a position of authority, at any level of the BPD hierarchy, was really interested in doing the job properly. Or, at least, not enough people to make any real difference. Complaints about clear and egregious constitutional violations are repeatedly found to be “not sustained” by the Internal Affairs division; shift commanders and sergeants and other mid-level authority figures constantly push line officers to engage in unconstitutional behavior in order to “clear corners” and harass citizens going about their lawful business; officers who fail to get on board with the unconstitutional practices are denied overtime and advancement within the department; and the department has no mechanism in place to even determine which commands, which supervisors, and which particular officers are disproportionately engaged in unconstitutional policing practices, meaning that they have no real way to correct such behavior. The past couple of police commissioners in the city have apparently tried to reduce the emphasis on “zero tolerance” policing that leads to so much of the egregious behavior, but it’s not clear how committed they are to the task, and it is very clear that officers at all levels of the BPD are ignoring the call anyway. One small incident really stands out in my mind as an indicator of how entrenched this sort of behavior is in the department. In this encounter, > [@](#): > > a BPD sergeant instructed a patrol officer to stop a group of young African-American males on a street corner, question them, and order them to disperse. When the patrol officer protested that he had no valid reason to stop the group, the sergeant replied “Then make something up.” This incident is illustrative not because its circumstances are particularly unusual. Indeed, the next sentence in the report notes that this type of thing is “far from anomalous.” What makes this incident so mind-blowing is that it occurred DURING a ride-along with Justice Department officials that was being conducted as part of the DoJ’s investigation. That is, the sergeant in the car knew that the Justice Department officials were investigating the BPD for evidence of unconstitutional policing practices, and apparently either didn’t know or didn’t care that he was ordering his subordinate to engage in unlawful policing. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8590 "2016-08-12T16:53:35Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What makes this incident so mind-blowing is that it occurred DURING a ride-along with Justice Department officials that was being conducted as part of the DoJ’s investigation. That is, the sergeant in the car knew that the Justice Department officials were investigating the BPD for evidence of unconstitutional policing practices, and apparently either didn’t know or didn’t care that he was ordering his subordinate to engage in unlawful policing. Larry Wilmore made the observation last night on his show to the affect that this is like you sitting down with your accountant with an auditing IRS agent present to do your taxes and asking him if he could pass the box of fake receipts to you. ---
**Author:** ![junopup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@junopup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/junopup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8591 "2016-08-14T21:56:32Z")
I just saw some of the latest rioting…another scumbag with a stolen gun is killed and you’d think whitey just killed black jesus! You have to love black folks:no matter what, they always manage to break into stores and strip them bare. Our laws should state - you riot, you die. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8592 "2016-08-14T21:57:50Z")
Fuck off you trolling piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![junopup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@junopup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/junopup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8593 "2016-08-14T22:01:55Z")
Police said the suspect had a “lengthy arrest record,” though the specific crimes were not detailed. The suspect was carrying a handgun taken in a March burglary in Waukesha. The owner reported that 500 rounds of ammunition also were stolen. Nefataria Gordon said she knew the man who had been killed by the officer. “He was a nice good person. He was really respected. That’s why everyone came out. They’re angry.” ---
**Author:** ![junopup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@junopup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/junopup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8594 "2016-08-14T22:05:06Z")
I’d think we all agree that damages from the riots should be paid from that areas’ public assistance programs. ---
**Author:** ![junopup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@junopup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/junopup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8595 "2016-08-14T22:08:58Z")
Khalif Rainey, an elected official of Milwaukee… How is this guy not all over the news. He gave a press conference and said “…if you don’t rectify this problem, we are ONE DAY AWAY…ONE DAY AWAY” WTF does that mean? Sounds like inciting violence, why is not DOJ investigating this scumbag? ---
**Author:** ![junopup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@junopup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/junopup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8596 "2016-08-14T22:17:48Z")
Looks like this is the same “Khalif” who wanted to rename Red Arrow park in downtown Milwakee in honor of Dontre Hamilton. “Dontre’s” claim to fame is wrestling a baton from a cop, and then proceeding to beat the cop with it, and subsequently being shot. At this poiint, we’re not far from the point where law-abiding citizens would just hire private security company and let them clean up Sierra Leone. ---
**Author:** ![junopup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@junopup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/junopup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8597 "2016-08-14T22:19:02Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Fuck off you trolling piece of shit. Fuck you right back at ya, you donkey-bred scoop of shimpanzee excrement. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8598 "2016-08-14T22:27:07Z")
> [@junopup](#): > > I just saw some of the latest rioting…another scumbag with a stolen gun is killed and you’d think whitey just killed black jesus! > > You have to love black folks:no matter what, they always manage to break into stores and strip them bare. > Our laws should state - you riot, you die. [Wasn’t no whitey.](http://www.cbs58.com/story/32755141/milwaukee-police-officer-that-fatally-shot-sylville-smith-was-african-american) Next time, learn the facts before posting while stupid. > [@](#): > > The Milwaukee Police Officer that fatally shot Sylville Smith is African American, according to Chief Flynn. ---
**Author:** ![junopup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@junopup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/junopup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8599 "2016-08-14T22:29:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Wasn’t no whitey.](http://www.cbs58.com/story/32755141/milwaukee-police-officer-that-fatally-shot-sylville-smith-was-african-american) > Next time, learn the facts before posting while stupid. I didn’t say he was 😕 Next time, learn to comprehend before posting while mentally challenged. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8600 "2016-08-14T22:29:39Z")
> [@junopup](#): > > … > You have to love black folks:no matter what, they always manage to break into stores and strip them bare. Lick it, you piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![junopup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@junopup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/junopup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8601 "2016-08-14T22:31:08Z")
The mugshot of the dindunuthin > **[Best search engine for True crime stories | Mugshots.com](https://mugshots.com/US-States/Wisconsin/Milwaukee-County-WI/Sylville-Smith.72870609.html)** > > Sylville Smith in Wisconsin Milwaukee County arrested for 343.44(1)(A), OPERATE WHILE SUSPENDED, Charges Pending 4/11/1993 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=429) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=431)