# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 433
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8642 "2016-08-25T16:59:28Z")
> [@aliensshow](#): > > While I applaud you for the racial virtue-signaling, you’re completely wrong here. If you don’t want to get arrested, don’t “give lip” to the cop who’s pulled you over. So simple even a liberal can understand it. Which is a transparent dodge of the issue. There can be no resisting arrest, if there is no arrest prior to resisting. If citizens are to be held to rigorous standards, then so should police. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8643 "2016-08-25T17:11:24Z")
I’m not aware of any jurisdiction where ‘giving lip’ or ‘contempt of cop’ is an arrestable offense. Nor can it convert a non-custodial violation into one. If you can cite jurisdiction and case law that says differently, then by all means, enlighten us. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8644 "2016-08-25T17:15:19Z")
> [@aliensshow](#): > > If you don’t want to get arrested, don’t “give lip” to the cop who’s pulled you over. “Giving lip” is not a crime and in fact, is a constitutionally protected activity. You realize that, right? ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8645 "2016-08-25T17:56:53Z")
I’ve never heard of a resisting charge without an underlying offense. You can’t resist an arrest that hasn’t been attempted. In NJ Obstructing the Administration of the Law would be the most common. “Step out of your car, please” “No” “Pretty please with sugar on top?” “No way. I want a supervisor” “You’re under arrest” Locks door and and fights with cop after cop breaks out window and opens door. Obstruction and resisting. You can give lip, just not refuse to obey lawful orders.` ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8646 "2016-08-25T18:01:09Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > I’ve never heard of a resisting charge without an underlying offense. You can’t resist an arrest that hasn’t been attempted. In NJ Obstructing the Administration of the Law would be the most common. > > “Step out of your car, please” > “No” > > “Pretty please with sugar on top?” > “No way. I want a supervisor” > > “You’re under arrest” > Locks door and and fights with cop after cop breaks out window and opens door. > > Obstruction and resisting. You can give lip, just not refuse to obey lawful orders.` Yes, but if you were pulled over for being black in a white neighborhood (read: no moving violations, wants or warrants, defects in lights or signals, car not reported stolen), because _you just didn’t look like you belonged there_, it the order lawful? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8647 "2016-08-25T18:11:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > She’s neither been convicted, nor has there been evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt presented to the public that she’s committed a crime. The director of the FBI announced publicly that she committed felonies. That’s not good enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8648 "2016-08-25T18:27:25Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The director of the FBI announced publicly that she committed felonies. That’s not good enough for you? \ ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8649 "2016-08-25T18:33:03Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The director of the FBI announced publicly that she committed felonies. That’s not good enough for you? No. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8650 "2016-08-25T18:38:35Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The director of the FBI announced publicly that she committed felonies. That’s not good enough for you? For your benefit, here’s a [transcript](https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system) of the FBI Director’s comments about the email server issue. Kindly point to the section that supports your assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8651 "2016-08-25T18:45:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The director of the FBI announced publicly that she committed felonies. That’s not good enough for you? The director of the FBI publicly announced that she did \*\*not \*\*commit felonies you stupid fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8652 "2016-08-25T18:47:17Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The director of the FBI announced publicly that she committed felonies. That’s not good enough for you? Liar. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8653 "2016-08-25T20:11:40Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The director of the FBI announced publicly that she committed felonies. That’s not good enough for you? You seem to have come down with a case of trumpephrenia, the inability to realize or care that others can check you assertions against _readily-available_ documentation for accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8654 "2016-08-26T00:34:35Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The director of the FBI publicly announced that she did \*\*not \*\*commit felonies you stupid fucking moron. Duh, there was a fringe on the flag so it was opposite day. Does nobody bother with basic civics these days? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8655 "2016-08-26T04:49:59Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Utter crap. Once the handcuffs are out, he has already decided to arrest you. Then, and only then, can you resist arrest. > > In you example, someone can be arrested for refusing to sign the ticket, then an additional charge of resisting. If you are only charged for _resisting_, it’s pretty much an admission that they have no cause for the _arrest_ DA’s drop lesser related charges all the time. Or do you think that someone cannot be charged with “felony reckless evading” unless you included every failure to signal, speeding, and unsafe lane change, or how were they committing the greater crime unless you cite every small related infraction. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8656 "2016-08-26T07:15:34Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > DA’s drop lesser related charges all the time. Or do you think that someone cannot be charged with “felony reckless evading” unless you included every failure to signal, speeding, and unsafe lane change, or how were they committing the greater crime unless you cite every small related infraction. Reckless driving is a cause unto itself. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8657 "2016-08-26T07:23:07Z")
> [@"\[the](#): > > ([Wisconsin GOP legislator to introduce 'Blue Lives Matter' bill](http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/election-matters/wisconsin-gop-legislator-to-introduce-blue-lives-matter-bill/article_1e61b27c-3adb-5924-9e17-909bbb920ad2.html))"]… state Rep. David Steffen, R-Howard, plans to introduce legislation that would make it a hate crime to target law enforcement officers in Wisconsin. because that will surely stop them ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8658 "2016-08-26T08:09:28Z")
I’ve heard those hate crime proposals in several states, but isn’t it already effectively a hate crime in many places? [It seems to already be in Wisconsin:](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/940/II/19) > [@](#): > > (4) Battery to public officers. Whoever intentionally causes bodily harm to a public officer in order to influence the action of such officer or as a result of any action taken within an official capacity, without the consent of the person injured, is guilty of a Class I felony. I’d be surprised if that wasn’t the case in most states. Or are they making it a super-duper hate crime, above and beyond harming a clerk of courts or something? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8659 "2016-08-26T08:15:25Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Yes, but if you were pulled over for being black in a white neighborhood (read: no moving violations, wants or warrants, defects in lights or signals, car not reported stolen), because _you just didn’t look like you belonged there_, it the order lawful? In a lot of states, it’s a crime to resist an unlawful arrest too. I think a _few_ states allow that as a defense, but it’s not the norm. ---
**Author:** ![mrazyuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@mrazyuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrazyuka)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8660 "2016-08-26T17:56:49Z")
[Policemen in Oregon shoot and kill a Muslim refugee](http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/08/man_shot_killed_by_police_offi.html) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8661 "2016-08-26T18:01:46Z")
> [@mrazyuka](#): > > [Policemen in Oregon shoot and kill a Muslim refugee](http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/08/man_shot_killed_by_police_offi.html) That’s not a helpful description. And it doesn’t look in the least controversial to me. A man was attacking another with some kind of pole, and when the cop walked in they guy immediately switched targets to the cop and started clubbing him. Why is this controversial? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=432) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=434)