# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 439
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8762 "2016-09-20T14:05:18Z")
The rate at which police are killing blacks in the USA is so high that it is reasonable for a black person to assume that any random interaction with a police officer may result in death or seriously bodily injury to the black person. Starving Artist, I’m sure you will agree that does not give the black person the right to kill the police officer, so why you believe that the obverse should give a police officer the right to kill a black person for the same reason is rather irrational on your part. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8763 "2016-09-20T15:04:02Z")
SA, every time additional information has come up, you have kept insisting he must have done something to cause the confrontation, comimg up with hypotheticals, and that in a bad cop/citizen encounter “it’s on you” if things go wrong. No need to do that, you could just say we do not know enough and should not judge untill all facts are in. I’m also just loving your utter confidence that when the scenario is of YOU stalled by the side of the road, you’ll be able to just pleasantly smile as you explain yourself, as opposed to being immediately treated as a dangerous suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8764 "2016-09-20T15:23:43Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I’m also just loving your utter confidence that when the scenario is of YOU stalled by the side of the road, you’ll be able to just pleasantly smile as you explain yourself, as opposed to being immediately treated as a dangerous suspect. He’s an elderly white man. He’s probably right. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8765 "2016-09-20T15:27:57Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I’m also just loving your utter confidence that when the scenario is of YOU stalled by the side of the road, you’ll be able to just pleasantly smile as you explain yourself, as opposed to being immediately treated as a dangerous suspect. In that case, I’m picturing **SA** getting beat down with nightsticks while the police yell “Stop resisting!” with each blow (because, those are the magic words that justify this, ya know). How many blows would it take for him to realize “Maybe I don’t understand these things like I thought I did?” ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8766 "2016-09-20T18:06:45Z")
Several of our members seem incapable of believing that a Law Enforcement Officer is anything but a shining white knight, courageously battling evil thugs. They do not seem to realize that just like some pedophiles become priests, some evil thugs become Law Enforcement Officers. Pretty much for the same reason. An never-ending pool of victims and the color of authority. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8767 "2016-09-20T21:15:24Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > some evil thugs become Law Enforcement Officers. Pretty much for the same reason. An never-ending pool of victims and the color of authority. Data point – the only time I was ever assaulted by a student, he was a law and security student, a.k.a. cop wannabe. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8768 "2016-09-21T04:36:59Z")
> **[Tulsa police shooting investigated by Justice Department | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/us/oklahoma-tulsa-police-shooting/index.html)** > > The death of Terence Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma, after a police shooting is being investigated by the Justice Department and state authorities. Terence Crutcher was asking police for help, a bunch of cops show up and tell him to put his hands in the air. One cop tasers him and another shoots him dead. I suspect that the female cop that killed Terence reacted to his convulsions when he got tasered. If so then the tasering officer was guilty of felony assault then he might be guilty of felony murder and the female officer might be guilty of obstruction of justice and maybe negligent homicide. Otherwise, I don’t see why she would shoot. ---
**Author:** ![LeaveMeAlone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@LeaveMeAlone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeaveMeAlone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8769 "2016-09-21T06:15:37Z")
I’m a cop…regarding the tulsa shooting…without knowing what happened directly before the video and I don’t like monday morninging other cops, but they appear incompetent and their horrendous tactics lead to that guy’s death (he didnt help himself either but whatever) So you have a guy who doesnt appear to be complying with your orders, but you see that his hands are up and empty, dont let him get back to his car, tackle him, taser him, karate chop him, but you don’t let him get back to that car, because now you are forcing yourself into a situation where you are going to shoot him, if he starts reaching for stuff in that car, which is what happened. Listen, the guy screwed up by not following the cop’s orders, but c’mon. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8770 "2016-09-21T10:09:32Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > …because now you are forcing yourself into a situation where you are going to shoot him, if he starts reaching for stuff in that car, which is what happened. Still frames from the helicopter video now show that the window of the vehicle was rolled up. Police claims that he was reaching into the vehicle are false. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8771 "2016-09-21T12:24:46Z")
The window was clearly rolled up. Even so, with many of these cases: **Does non-compliance with a police officer’s orders carry the death penalty?** No? Then maybe we need to change something here, and it isn’t “Do what you’re told or fucking DIE!” ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8772 "2016-09-21T12:41:49Z")
Another one: [Keith Lamont Scott: Protests erupt over police killing | Racism News | Al Jazeera](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/keith-lamont-scott-protests-erupt-police-killing-160921045737483.html) Police claim he had a gun [just for interest - NC is a pretty lax open carry state] Witnesses say he did not. Another [article](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/charlotte-shooting-disabled-black-man-8880880) claims the officer who did the shooting was undercover and not in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8773 "2016-09-21T16:04:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, please. Where did I say anything remotely like do as we say under penalty of death? You were pretty clear that touching a door latch justified being shot. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8774 "2016-09-21T16:07:16Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > dont let him get back to his car, tackle him, taser him, karate chop him, but you don’t let him get back to that car, because now you are forcing yourself into a situation where you are going to shoot him, if he starts reaching for stuff in that car, which is what happened. Listen, the guy screwed up by not following the cop’s orders, but c’mon. I am retired from “the job” and I have to disagree. We do not know if the female officer even had a taser. If she did, that may have been a better option. If she didn’t, I guess she could have tried pepper spray but to go hands on against what appears to me to be a much larger suspect defies reason. Most cops are not MMA experts capable of physically handling everyone with a karate chop. Disparity in size/strength in one of the factors the courts have said must be taken into consideration when considering use of force, both when it is applied and when it is reviewed. We also don’t know what the interaction was prior to the video. If, in fact, he was under the influence of PCP and the officer recognized that as a possibility, the officer may have reasonably felt that pepper spray wasn’t an option. PCP can produce bizarre behavior including indifference to pain and superhuman strength. It is very likely that, at some point in her training, the officer saw what can happen when a subject is allowed to return to his vehicle despite orders (at gunpoint) to not do so. Deputy Dinkheller permitted that to happen and paid with his life. Right up until the point where he grabbed his rifle the killer was dancing around with his hands in the air. The video of that is on YouTube, have a look. There is simply not enough information to condemn the officers. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8775 "2016-09-21T16:23:57Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > I am retired from “the job” and I have to disagree. We do not know if the female officer even had a taser. If she did, that may have been a better option. If she didn’t, I guess she could have tried pepper spray but to go hands on against what appears to me to be a much larger suspect defies reason. Most cops are not MMA experts capable of physically handling everyone with a karate chop. Disparity in size/strength in one of the factors the courts have said must be taken into consideration when considering use of force, both when it is applied and when it is reviewed. Oh, for fuck’s sake, there were 4 of them. 4 cops, with tasers and billy clubs. 4 trained officers with tasers and clubs they thought shooting him was the only option they had?? Because he _might_ be reaching for a gun?? When did ‘_might_ be reaching for a gun’ become justification for deadly force? I swear to OG, it looks like these cops think every black person they come across is a super-villain from the movies who is gonna draw down on 4 cops with their weapons already pulled. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8776 "2016-09-21T16:28:21Z")
For me if comes down to the deplorable and sociopathic view of other Human life being exhibited by our police. “If you feel threatened, KILL THE OTHER PERSON”. We would wage war on any other group of citizens who took that position. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8777 "2016-09-21T16:34:24Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > I am retired from “the job” and I have to disagree. We do not know if the female officer even had a taser. If she did, that may have been a better option. If she didn’t, I guess she could have tried pepper spray but to go hands on against what appears to me to be a much larger suspect defies reason. Most cops are not MMA experts capable of physically handling everyone with a karate chop. Disparity in size/strength in one of the factors the courts have said must be taken into consideration when considering use of force, both when it is applied and when it is reviewed. > > We also don’t know what the interaction was prior to the video. If, in fact, he was under the influence of PCP and the officer recognized that as a possibility, the officer may have reasonably felt that pepper spray wasn’t an option. PCP can produce bizarre behavior including indifference to pain and superhuman strength. > > It is very likely that, at some point in her training, the officer saw what can happen when a subject is allowed to return to his vehicle despite orders (at gunpoint) to not do so. Deputy Dinkheller permitted that to happen and paid with his life. Right up until the point where he grabbed his rifle the killer was dancing around with his hands in the air. The video of that is on YouTube, have a look. > > There is simply not enough information to condemn the officers. And based on standards as vague as those, there never can be. ---
**Author:** ![LeaveMeAlone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@LeaveMeAlone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeaveMeAlone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8778 "2016-09-21T16:36:32Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > I am retired from “the job” and I have to disagree. We do not know if the female officer even had a taser. If she did, that may have been a better option. If she didn’t, I guess she could have tried pepper spray but to go hands on against what appears to me to be a much larger suspect defies reason. Most cops are not MMA experts capable of physically handling everyone with a karate chop. Disparity in size/strength in one of the factors the courts have said must be taken into consideration when considering use of force, both when it is applied and when it is reviewed. > > We also don’t know what the interaction was prior to the video. If, in fact, he was under the influence of PCP and the officer recognized that as a possibility, the officer may have reasonably felt that pepper spray wasn’t an option. PCP can produce bizarre behavior including indifference to pain and superhuman strength. > > It is very likely that, at some point in her training, the officer saw what can happen when a subject is allowed to return to his vehicle despite orders (at gunpoint) to not do so. Deputy Dinkheller permitted that to happen and paid with his life. Right up until the point where he grabbed his rifle the killer was dancing around with his hands in the air. The video of that is on YouTube, have a look. > > There is simply not enough information to condemn the officers. I have to disagree, there are 4 cops in the video, tackle him, jump on his back, if he runs, he runs, if he fights he fights, but don’t let him get back to his car, you’re just making a bad situation worse and setting up a deadly force scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8779 "2016-09-21T16:37:30Z")
Was he supposedly reaching through a _closed_ window, or was he reaching for a [del]deadly weapon[/del]door handle? ---
**Author:** ![LeaveMeAlone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@LeaveMeAlone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeaveMeAlone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8780 "2016-09-21T16:45:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Was he supposedly reaching through a _closed_ window, or was he reaching for a [del]deadly weapon[/del]door handle? The whole thing could have been avoided if they didn’t let him get back to his car. Of the options available to them, they seem to have chosen the worse possible. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8781 "2016-09-21T16:49:51Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > The whole thing could have been avoided if they didn’t let him get back to his car. Of the options available to them, they seem to have chosen the worse possible. The whole thing could have been avoided if they hadn’t killed him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=438) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=440)