# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 440
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8782 "2016-09-21T16:50:02Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > I have to disagree, there are 4 cops in the video, tackle him, jump on his back, if he runs, he runs, if he fights he fights, but don’t let him get back to his car, you’re just making a bad situation worse and setting up a deadly force scenario. Agreed. 4 on 1, should have been a takedown as soon as it he started headed back to the car. But by not being either prepared or willing to take any risk with the “suspect” they allowed things to progress to a deadly force decision. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8783 "2016-09-21T16:58:17Z")
Doesn’t anyone fire a warning shot, anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8784 "2016-09-21T18:08:55Z")
Perhaps I am ignorant of the facts in this case and someone can fill me in. He was waiting for help next to a stalled vehicle. Why did the officers on the scene consider him a threat? Why did they tell him to put his hands up?? Was there a crime reported and he fit a description? What reason did they have, other than him being black and large?? Do we have audio from dashcam? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8785 "2016-09-21T18:11:24Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Doesn’t anyone fire a warning shot, anymore? Can you just imagine it though? Startled, the man steps backwards and his hands go down and… he’s dead. Perhaps what the US needs is mandatory obedience training for citizens. It could be done in Civics class right after discussions on justice and the general welfare. As a bonus, you can link it to discussions in English class around literary devices like irony. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8786 "2016-09-21T18:19:39Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Can you just imagine it though? Startled, the man steps backwards and his hands go down and… he’s dead. > > Perhaps what the US needs is mandatory obedience training for citizens. It could be done in Civics class right after discussions on justice and the general welfare. As a bonus, you can link it to discussions in English class around literary devices like irony. Good idea, those who survive pass, those who fail… well, they won’t be causing any problems, now will they? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8787 "2016-09-21T18:23:46Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > I have to disagree, there are 4 cops in the video, tackle him, jump on his back, if he runs, he runs, **if he fights he fights** , but don’t let him get back to his car, you’re just making a bad situation worse and setting up a deadly force scenario. Emphasis mine. It seems that the discussion about policing as a dangerous occupation has, among some police forces and/or among some officers, engendered a belief that they should never have to take any action at all that might result in a risk of injury. It seems that some cops truly do believe that it is acceptable to shoot an unarmed man if the alternative might be a scuffle in which one or more of the police officers could receive some bangs and scrapes. I’m not arguing that police should go one on one, hand to hand, against suspects, especially if the suspect is big or on drugs or seems to be an accomplished fighter. But if there are four or you, and one unarmed suspect, then i’m sorry, but that’s part of the job you signed up for. Jump on his back and take him down, if that’s what it takes. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8788 "2016-09-21T18:51:23Z")
[The Massachusetts Supreme Court has ruled that black people have a legitimate right to flee from the police out of fear, and doing so is not “probable cause”.](http://www.wbur.org/news/2016/09/20/mass-high-court-black-men-may-have-legitimate-reason-to-flee-police) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8789 "2016-09-21T18:56:12Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [The Massachusetts Supreme Court has ruled that black people have a legitimate right to flee from the police out of fear, and doing so is not “probable cause”.](http://www.wbur.org/news/2016/09/20/mass-high-court-black-men-may-have-legitimate-reason-to-flee-police) But is would still be legal to shoot them, right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8790 "2016-09-21T18:58:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [The Massachusetts Supreme Court has ruled that black people have a legitimate right to flee from the police out of fear, and doing so is not “probable cause”.](http://www.wbur.org/news/2016/09/20/mass-high-court-black-men-may-have-legitimate-reason-to-flee-police) Holy crap, that sounds like a monumentally important ruling. Can any lawyers translate it? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8791 "2016-09-21T19:03:30Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Perhaps what the US needs is mandatory obedience training for citizens. It could be done in Civics class right after discussions on justice and the general welfare. As a bonus, you can link it to discussions in English class around literary devices like irony. Or, a History and Moral Philosophy class like in _[Starship Troopers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers)_: > [@](#): > > **Politics** > Large portions of the book take place in classrooms, with Rico and other characters engaged in debates with their History and Moral Philosophy teacher, who is often thought[19] to represent Heinlein’s opinion.[19] The overall theme of the book is that social responsibility requires individual sacrifice. Heinlein’s Terran Federation is a limited democracy, with aspects of a meritocracy in regard to full citizenship. Suffrage can only be earned by at least two years of volunteer Federal Service [“the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans”, (ch. XII)], instead of, as Heinlein would later note, anyone “…who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37 °C”[20] The Federation is required to find a place for anyone who desires to serve, regardless of skill or aptitude (this also includes service ranging from teaching to dangerous non-military work such as serving as experimental medical test subjects to military service). There is an explicit contrast to the “democracies of the 20th century”, which according to the novel, collapsed because “people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted… and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears.”[21] Indeed, Colonel Dubois criticizes the famous U.S. Declaration of Independence line concerning “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” as unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8792 "2016-09-21T19:04:43Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The rate at which police are killing blacks in the USA is so high that it is reasonable for a black person to assume that any random interaction with a police officer may result in death or seriously bodily injury to the black person. Starving Artist, I’m sure you will agree that does not give the black person the right to kill the police officer, so why you believe that the obverse should give a police officer the right to kill a black person for the same reason is rather irrational on your part. Most people killed by police are white males. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8793 "2016-09-21T19:06:04Z")
Charlotte is bracing for more riots. I’m watching CNN, and apparently dash cam video of the shooting does exist. However, due to a law McCrory signed this summer, it cannot be released unless a judge orders it. Eta a link about the shooting. > **[Man Is Shot in Charlotte as Unrest Stretches to Second Night (Published 2016)](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/keith-scott-charlotte-police-shooting.html?_r=0)** > > Violence broke out in a “civilian on civilian” confrontation during protests in the city’s Uptown district over the death of Keith Scott. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8794 "2016-09-21T19:08:06Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Most people killed by police are white males. What about as a percentage of the populations? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8795 "2016-09-21T19:12:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But is would still be legal to shoot them, right? Sure, but they probably need to lead them a little more. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8796 "2016-09-21T19:13:47Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > What about as a percentage of the populations? Irrelevant. Which group commits more crime as a percentage of the population? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8797 "2016-09-21T19:15:19Z")
[The ACLU is suing three Connecticut Highway Patrol officers after they recorded themselves conspiring to plant evidence on a protester they had arrested because they didn’t like that he had legally been recording them.](http://www.acluct.org/updates/aclu-ct-sues-three-police-officers-for-violating-protesters-rights/) They had taken the protester’s camera away from him without cause, but didn’t realize it was still recording when they talked about how to make him look guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8798 "2016-09-21T19:16:45Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Irrelevant. No, it isn’t. What’s the answer? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8799 "2016-09-21T19:17:16Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Irrelevant. > > Which group commits more crime as a percentage of the population? So they should be shooting more white males on sight? Especially those with gym bags, bike racks and other indicators of physical capability to present a threat? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8800 "2016-09-21T19:19:15Z")
“But I had to shoot! He stepped out of the minivan all kinds of ripped and with that huge package staring at me out of his spandex covered crotch! I thought I was a dead man!” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8801 "2016-09-21T19:19:17Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Irrelevant. > > Which group commits more crime as a percentage of the population? Any and/or all crime should be punished by a police shooting? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=439) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=441)