# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 448
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8942 "2016-09-23T18:49:34Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I suspect, based on your posting history, that you’re not capable of understanding the distinction, but when you say “it was his previous behavior…that indicated he was on PCP,” do you have factual evidence that the officer knew his history before shooting him? It’s obvious, based on your current posting history, that you’re not capable of understanding the distinction, but I didn’t say it was the officer who had previous knowledge of his history. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8943 "2016-09-23T18:57:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **Shodan** , Officer Shelby had no idea that Crutcher was high on anything when she shot him. Her attorney says otherwise, as did one of the officers in the helicopter. And Shelby had undergone training designed to assist her in recognizing drug intoxication. You, on the other hand, are trying to suggest that he had a movement disorder, or that he was sleep walking, based on no evidence at all. _:shrugs:_ > [@Chimera](#): > > You’re insisting the shooting was entirely legal. No I’m not. I am pointing out the fallacy of your insistence that police shoot those they believe are on PCP on sight. > [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > The bolded items are in no way indicative of Mr. Crutcher’s possibly having used PCP on the day he was killed. There’s your problem - of course they are. Not proof - indicative. Do you people ever listen to yourselves? ‘Just because he resisted arrest before while high on drugs, and just because he spent four years in prison for drugs, and just because his father said he had an ongoing problem with PCP - that’s no indication that he was using PCP!’ 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8944 "2016-09-23T18:58:56Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s obvious, based on your current posting history, that you’re not capable of understanding the distinction, but I didn’t say it was the officer who had previous knowledge of his history. My mistake, I misread your post. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8945 "2016-09-23T19:01:11Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > The Dinkheller video is sobering, graphic, appalling. However Dinkheller was by himself. There were 4 officers at the scene of the Crutcher shooting. Why couldn’t they have spread out? Why couldn’t one of them have shot the tires out of Crutcher’s car ? (It will be a happy day when we have angry discussions over whether the police need to compensate someone for a preemptive tire puncture). [Ariel footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5adHJhGC5k) shows that Crutcher had already arrived at the vehicle’s door by the time the other officers arrived. They came running up behind Shelby and didn’t arrive as a group, as some footage of the shooting only might seem to suggest. Shortly after their arrival he lowered his hands and appeared to attempt to open the door of the car and that’s when the taser and the gun were fired. And yes, they could have flattened the tires but that wouldn’t have made any difference had he been going for a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8946 "2016-09-23T19:01:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you people ever listen to yourselves? 'Just because he resisted arrest before while high on drugs, and just because he spent four years in prison for drugs, and just because his father said he had an ongoing problem with PCP - that’s no indication that he was using PCP! We’re trying to distinguish an ex post from an ex ante justification. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8947 "2016-09-23T19:05:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No I’m not. I am pointing out the fallacy of your insistence that police shoot those they believe are on PCP on sight. I made no such assertion. You’re putting words in my mouth, as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8948 "2016-09-23T19:05:59Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > My mistake, I misread your post. No problem. Happens a lot around here. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8949 "2016-09-23T19:30:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What I said was that it was his previous behavior and not his walking back to the car that indicated he was on PCP, **as he almost certainly was given his history**. His history of PCP use is irrelevant to the officer’s actions, attitudes and perceptions. You only bring it up to poison the well. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8950 "2016-09-23T19:35:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Her attorney says otherwise, as did one of the officers in the helicopter. And Shelby had undergone training designed to assist her in recognizing drug intoxication. > > You, on the other hand, are trying to suggest that he had a movement disorder, or that he was sleep walking, based on no evidence at all. _:shrugs:_ > No I’m not. I am pointing out the fallacy of your insistence that police shoot those they believe are on PCP on sight. > There’s your problem - of course they are. Not proof - indicative. > > Do you people ever listen to yourselves? ‘Just because he resisted arrest before while high on drugs, and just because he spent four years in prison for drugs, and just because his father said he had an ongoing problem with PCP - that’s no indication that he was using PCP!’ > > 😃 > > Regards, > Shodan Much the same as well know that you’ve consumed alcohol in your lifetime prior to this moment, **Shodan** , doesn’t lead us all to think that you’re drunk right now. Similarly, it’s not your history of being an insufferable jackass that leads us to conclude that you are also an insufferable jackass right now; it’s your current actions. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8951 "2016-09-23T19:40:52Z")
[It turns out that Keith Lamont Scott’s wife was filming (video at the link does not autoplay): > [@](#): > > The two-minute-and-12 second video begins with shaking images of grass and the voice, apparently that of an officer, shouting, “Hands Up!” > > City officials have refused to release the police video of the shooting, saying they do not want to impede their investigation. > > The beginning of the video shows a view of Mr. Scott’s white pickup truck, and multiple police officers around it. Mr. Scott is not visible. > > Immediately, Ms. Scott says, “Don’t shoot him,” and begins walking closer to the officers and Mr. Scott’s vehicle. “Don’t shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don’t shoot him.” > > An officer can then be heard yelling: “Gun. Gun. Drop the gun. Drop the fucking gun,” at the same time that another police vehicle, lights flashing, turns in front of the camera. > > “Don’t shoot him, don’t shoot him,” Ms. Scott pleads, her voice getting louder and more anxious. “He didn’t do anything.” > > By this time, 20 seconds into the video, Ms. Scott is standing behind two police cars and walking closer and closer to the scene. > > “He doesn’t have a gun,” Ms. Scott says. “He has a T.B.I.” — an abbreviation for the traumatic brain injury the lawyers said Mr. Scott sustained in a motorcycle accident in November 2015. “He’s not going to do anything to you guys. He just took his medicine.” > > “Drop the gun,” an officer screams as the wife tries to explain her husband’s condition. “Let me get a fucking baton over here.” > > “Keith don’t let them break the windows. Come up out the car,” Ms. Scott says, as the video shows an officer approaching Mr. Scott’s vehicle. > > “Drop the gun,” an officer shouts again. > > “Keith, don’t do it,” Ms. Scott shouts, as the video shows her backing away a bit and panning to the ground. “Keith, get out of the car. Keith, Keith. Don’t you do it. Don’t you do it, Keith.” > > The Raw Videos That Have Sparked Outrage Over Police Treatment of Blacks > A collection of videos that have led to nationwide protests, federal investigations and changes in policy and attitudes on race. > Mr. Bamberg said that Ms. Scott was trying, in those statements, to “get him to stand still” after he eventually got out of the car. > > Fifty seconds into the video, gunshots ring out. > > “Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him?” Ms. Scott shouts, her voice getting louder with each second. “Did you shoot him? He better not be fucking dead. He better not be fucking dead. I know that fucking much. I know that much. He better not be dead.” > > The video then shows Mr. Scott laying on the ground with officers around him. > > “I’m not going to come here. I’m going to record, though,” Ms. Scott said. “I’m not coming near you. I’m going to record, though. He better be alive because — he better be alive.” ]([http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/24/us/charlotte-keith-scott-shooting-video.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/24/us/charlotte-keith-scott-shooting-video.html?_r=0)) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8952 "2016-09-23T19:42:34Z")
Here is the transcript of Mrs. Scott’s video, from the link above: > [@](#): > > OFFICER: Hands up! > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: Don’t shoot him. Don’t shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don’t shoot him. > > OFFICER: Don’t shoot. Drop the gun. Drop the fucking gun. > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: Don’t shoot him. Don’t shoot him. > > OFFICER: Drop the gun. > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: He didn’t do anything. > > OFFICER: Drop the gun. Drop the gun. > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: He doesn’t have a gun. He has a T.B.I. (Traumatic Brain Injury). > > OFFICER: Drop the gun. > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: He is not going to do anything to you guys. > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: He just took his medicine. > > OFFICER: Drop the gun. Let me get a fucking baton over here. [muffled] > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: Keith, don’t let them break the windows. Come on out the car. > > OFFICER: [muffled] > > OFFICER: Drop the gun. > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: Keith! Don’t you do it. > > OFFICER: Drop the gun. > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: Keith, get out the car. Keith! Keith! Don’t you do it! Don’t you do it! Keith! > > OFFICER: Drop the gun. > > RAKEYIA SCOTT:Keith! Keith! Keith! Don’t you do it! [SHOTS] > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: Fuck. Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? He better not be fucking dead.He better not be fucking dead. I know that fucking much. I know that much. He better not be dead. I’m not going to come near you. I’m going to record, though. I’m not coming near you. I’m going to record, though.He better be alive because …I come You better be alive. How about that?Yes, we here, over here at 50 … 50 …9453 Lexington Court. These are the police officers that shot my husband, and he better live. He better live. Because he didn’t do nothing to them. > > OFFICER: Is everybody good? Are you good? > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: He good. Nobody … touch nobody, so they’re all good. > > OFFICER: You good? > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: I know he better live. I know he better live. How about that I’m not coming to you guys, but he’d better live. He better live. You all hear it, you see this, right? He better live. > > OFFICER: [muffled] > > RAKEYIA SCOTT: He better live. I swear, he better live. Yep, he better live. He better fucking live. He better live. Where is…He better fucking live, and I can’t even leave the damn…I ain’t going nowhere. I’m staying in the same damn spot. What the fuck. That’s O.K. did you all call the police? I mean, did you all call an ambulance? I noticed that at no time does the officer seem to even know that Mrs. Scott is there. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8953 "2016-09-23T19:45:03Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I’m not sure what hair you’re trying to split here. > > How could police legitimately differentiate someone who is a threat from someone who’s not a threat, but is acting in the manner of someone who is a threat? Someone who is pointing a gun, knife, etc. at you is a threat. Someone who is just acting funny or not listening to your commands but doesn’t have a weapon is not a threat, although an officer who is overly fearful, especially of black people, may perceive the latter as being a threat when they really aren’t. Examples include Philando Castile and Ternce Crutcher among others. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8954 "2016-09-23T19:49:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Here is the transcript of Mrs. Scott’s video, from the link above: Wasn’t there a picture internetting around that might have shown a gun? Couple days ago, think it was. It was laying there on the ground, close enough so that it might have been dropped. What happened to that? Am I the only one who saw it? To be clear, its just something rather odd, at this point. I do not offer this observation as a fact, because of self-esteem issues, in that I have some. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8955 "2016-09-23T20:32:15Z")
> [@](#): > > “Keith, don’t do it,” > > "Keith, get out the car. Keith, Keith. Don’t you do it. Don’t you do it, Keith.” One can’t help but wonder what the “it” was that she didn’t want him to do. This would certainly sound ominous to me if I were the officer trying to deal with this man, and it may well have played a role in his getting shot. This is getting to be ridiculous. Here we have incident after incident after incident where cops try over and over and over again to get a subject to comply and to cease his threatening or potentially threatening behavior, and then when the subject refuses over and over and over again and winds up getting shot, it’s all because he’s a black guy and the cops are at fault. And it’s all whipped up by an irresponsible media appearing to act in equal parts greed for viewers/JSW-ism, neither of which motive cares a whit for facts or the truth but chooses instead to advance a slanted narrative serving their own purpose which results in outrage and innocent people being hurt and killed. And ain’t nobody nowhere on the public stage stressing compliance, which is the one thing that would have prevented all these shootings from happening in the first place. But I guess asking for compliance is too much because…racism? How does that work exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8956 "2016-09-23T20:54:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Shodan > There is a law that says police can shoot you if you are acting in a threatening manner when you are resisting arrest When did the police inform him that he was under arrest? It’s a good thing for the guy in the Phoenix incident that it occurred within the city limits of Phoenix, because if it had happened in Maricopa County, Joe Arpaio would have given those cops medals and raises. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8957 "2016-09-23T21:06:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > One can’t help but wonder what the “it” was that she didn’t want him to do. This would certainly sound ominous to me if I were the officer trying to deal with this man, and it may well have played a role in his getting shot. One can’t help but wonder if the cops heeded her assertion that he had a traumatic brain injury, or if they considered that maybe they could de-escalate the situation, especially with her help (which she was obviously trying to do). > [@](#): > > This is getting to be ridiculous. Here we have incident after incident after incident where cops try over and over and over again to get a subject to comply and to cease his threatening or potentially threatening behavior, and then when the subject refuses over and over and over again and winds up getting shot, it’s all because he’s a black guy and the cops are at fault. No, we have incident after incident in which you keep saying this with intermittent or totally absent evidence. This video doesn’t show anything threatening, and neither does the Tulsa video, especially considering the other information that has been released (that they [already searched the car](http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/23/tulsa-police-shooting-criminal-charges/) and found no weapons – so they knew he couldn’t be going for a weapon in the car). And “potentially threatening” behavior shouldn’t be enough to be killed over. > [@](#): > > And it’s all whipped up by an irresponsible media appearing to act in equal parts greed for viewers/JSW-ism, neither of which motive cares a whit for facts or the truth but chooses instead to advance a slanted narrative serving their own purpose which results in outrage and innocent people being hurt and killed. Bullshit. There are real people with real terror of the police. You might not consider it legitimate, but there are millions of Americans who, due to their own personal experiences and those of their families, see the police as potentially deadly enemies, and not as helpful allies. That’s a serious problem and that’s why there is so much trouble and protesting. And most of the protesting is not violent at all. > [@](#): > > And ain’t nobody nowhere on the public stage stressing compliance, which is the one thing that would have prevented all these shootings from happening in the first place. But I guess asking for compliance is too much because…racism? How does that work exactly? Because compliance is easily said but that’s it. When a bunch of people are yelling (and potentially yelling contradictory orders), and you’re in incredible bone-shaking terror for your life, compliance can be nigh impossible. If a bunch of plain clothes guys grab you when you did nothing but sell cigarettes on the street, then it’s not at all surprising if you react with fear and resistance. These reactions shouldn’t be enough for deadly force unless there is absolutely imminent threat of serious harm, and in a lot of these cases, that imminent threat hasn’t been shown at all. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8958 "2016-09-23T21:38:21Z")
No matter how much I try, I can’t get this [image](http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/09/23/0923-crime-scene-arrest-photo-charlotte-mecklenburg-police-3.jpg) to jibe with the one at 1:49 in [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WcX2cUeLOw&ab_channel=Agent22817) video. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8959 "2016-09-23T21:45:51Z")
Sorry: [- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WcX2cUeLOw) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8960 "2016-09-23T21:57:03Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > No matter how much I try, I can’t get this [image](http://ll-media.tmz.com/2016/09/23/0923-crime-scene-arrest-photo-charlotte-mecklenburg-police-3.jpg) to jibe with the one at 1:49 in [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WcX2cUeLOw&ab_channel=Agent22817) video. At some point, I guess the object moved towards the bottom of the frame, and his pants were removed (no idea why!). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8961 "2016-09-23T22:10:19Z")
If the Charlotte shooting dashcam and bodycam videos showed that the dead man was holding and pointing a gun, I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t have released it. That they haven’t released it at the very least suggests that it may not show the cops’ actions in a good light. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=447) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=449)