# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 450
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8982 "2016-09-24T21:15:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I guess this is another case where police officers demonstrate their [poor training](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/24/baltimore-man-tawon-boyd-dies-after-he-called-911)? > > If a doctor killed his patient through carelessness, his/her license would be revoked and they wouldn’t be allowed to practice anymore. > > But for some reason, police officers that kill people through fuck-uppery are excused on the basis that their training must be inadequate. And the taxpayer is held accountable by paying for more training that doesn’t change anything, while also shilling out millions of dollars to all the victims. > > Meanwhile, these police officers are held up as heroes for whom we all owe our lives to. If we dare to question their actions, we must not love America. It’s nice to know that if any one of us accidentally killed a cop the courts would show leniency to us. Shit happens, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8983 "2016-09-24T23:17:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If the Charlotte shooting dashcam and bodycam videos showed that the dead man was holding and pointing a gun, I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t have released it. That they haven’t released it at the very least suggests that it may not show the cops’ actions in a good light. [Video](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/us/charlotte-police-videos-keith-scott.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) released. It’s hard to see anything threatening that this guy was doing. Shots seem to come out of nowhere. Did I miss anything here? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8984 "2016-09-24T23:36:07Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Video](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/us/charlotte-police-videos-keith-scott.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) released. It’s hard to see anything threatening that this guy was doing. Shots seem to come out of nowhere. Did I miss anything here? All I saw was him getting out of the car and backing slowly away. I didn’t see anything in his hands. I don’t think this helps the cause of the cops in any way. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8985 "2016-09-24T23:44:54Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Video](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/us/charlotte-police-videos-keith-scott.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) released. It’s hard to see anything threatening that this guy was doing. Shots seem to come out of nowhere. Did I miss anything here? I’ve studied the body cam and dashcam videos closely and for the life of me don’t see where Scott had a weapon aimed at anyone. He might have been holding a gun (it’s hard to tell from the footage) and it’s clear he’s not following orders. But surely that shouldn’t merit getting killed. I mean, for all we know, Scott was about to put the gun on the ground and surrender. There are no indications to suggest otherwise. I don’t understand why the situation was escalated the way it was. Apparently Scott attracted the police’s attention because an officer saw him rolling a joint in his car, and the police officer then noticed that he had a gun. Neither of those two things are illegal or suspicious (he could have been rolling tobacco). Now, he was wrong for not doing as he was told, but dayum. How strange is it that the NY bomber dude who actually shot at police and blew up people was able to be taken into custody, but not a dude just sitting in his truck. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8986 "2016-09-25T00:01:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > All I saw was him getting out of the car and backing slowly away. I didn’t see anything in his hands. I don’t think this helps the cause of the cops in any way. I tend to err on the side of believing the police, but this video is making me reconsider that stance. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8987 "2016-09-25T01:11:13Z")
In the aftermath of the shooting, there seems to be a gun dropped/thrown by one of the police officers in the [Keith Lamont Scott video](https://www.facebook.com/duane.vandross/videos/938394712971802/) (Jump to 2:45 in link). However it could be black gloves. ??? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8988 "2016-09-25T02:20:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I guess this is another case where police officers demonstrate their [poor training](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/24/baltimore-man-tawon-boyd-dies-after-he-called-911)? > > If a doctor killed his patient through carelessness, his/her license would be revoked and they wouldn’t be allowed to practice anymore. > > But for some reason, police officers that kill people through fuck-uppery are excused on the basis that their training must be inadequate. And the taxpayer is held accountable by paying for more training that doesn’t change anything, while also shilling out millions of dollars to all the victims. > > Meanwhile, these police officers are held up as heroes for whom we all owe our lives to. If we dare to question their actions, we must not love America. I have to say, I am a little surprised that I haven’t heard of any Baltimore protests regarding this case. When someone calls 911 for help, he should not end up dead at the hands of the cops! Yes, he was acting bizarre- because he needed help! ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8989 "2016-09-25T06:14:13Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > In the aftermath of the shooting, there seems to be a gun dropped/thrown by one of the police officers in the [Keith Lamont Scott video](https://www.facebook.com/duane.vandross/videos/938394712971802/) (Jump to 2:45 in link). However it could be black gloves. ??? Those are gloves ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8990 "2016-09-25T13:34:07Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I tend to err on the side of believing the police, but this video is making me reconsider that stance. I brought this up earlier. Why? There have been multiple times when the police swear one thing and the video showed that they complete, utterly lied about it. Scott’s murderer was shown planting a weapon on the body while Rice’s shooter’s sequence of events didn’t match reality at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8991 "2016-09-25T15:46:40Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > There have been multiple times when the police swear one thing and the video showed that they complete, utterly lied about it. [Police Unions](http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/joshua-ostroff/police-unions_b_12154574.html) need to stop protecting rotten cops. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8992 "2016-09-25T15:57:13Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > I brought this up earlier. Why? There have been multiple times when the police swear one thing and the video showed that they complete, utterly lied about itl. QFT. I understand the temptation to side with the cops in the absence of video evidence but blindly affording them the benefit of the doubt is foolish when time after time we see how they lie, miscontrue facts, plant evidence, and come out with the most outlandish justifications to excuse conduct that would land anyone else in jail for life. The dashcam video is damning because it contradicts the claim that Scott was fired upon because he pointed a gun at the cops. But who wants to bet that now the goalpost will be moved from him pointing the gun to him doing something else bad? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8993 "2016-09-25T15:58:11Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Scott’s murderer was shown planting a weapon on the body while Rice’s shooter’s sequence of events didn’t match reality at all. Can you point me to where this is shown? ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8994 "2016-09-25T16:23:30Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Can you point me to where this is shown? [https://youtu.be/BW5rXN9c67M](https://youtu.be/BW5rXN9c67M) at 1:50. Another news source: [http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c\_id=2&objectid=11429860](http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11429860) ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8995 "2016-09-25T17:12:56Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > [https://youtu.be/BW5rXN9c67M](https://youtu.be/BW5rXN9c67M) at 1:50. > > Another news source: [http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c\_id=2&objectid=11429860](http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11429860) That appears to be a different “Scott” than the one I was talking about (Keith vs. Walter). ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8996 "2016-09-25T17:26:24Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > That appears to be a different “Scott” than the one I was talking about (Keith vs. Walter). Ahh, gotchya. I think my question still stands, though. There have been numerous instances where the police were caught lying. And that’s just on camera. I can’t imagine how many times they did but no one was there to film it. Why still err on the side of believing them? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8997 "2016-09-25T17:38:41Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Ahh, gotchya. I think my question still stands, though. There have been numerous instances where the police were caught lying. And that’s just on camera. I can’t imagine how many times they did but no one was there to film it. Why still err on the side of believing them? Like I said, I’m evolving on the issue. I think we SHOULD live in a world where we err on the side of believing the police. I used to think we DID live in that world. I think that some of these shootings that have become cause celebres were very much legitimate, and that there is a disservice done to the issue a whole by embracing the anti-police story regardless of the facts that emerge. But, I now believe that a larger percentage than I used to were not legitimate. The video you linked, despite being a different Scott, is part of that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8998 "2016-09-25T18:05:44Z")
These sort of things didn’t happen very often before we had those cameras and stuff. The cameras are clearly having a very negative effect on our police. The alternative explanation, of course, is that these things have been happening all along, like so many of our brown Americans tell us. And we are just now finding out. Nobody much likes that one. White folks don’t like it because it makes them feel guilty, brown folks don’t like it because it doesn’t make white folks feel guilty _enough_. “Enough” in this instance means “doing something about it”. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/8999 "2016-09-25T18:17:35Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Like I said, I’m evolving on the issue. I think we SHOULD live in a world where we err on the side of believing the police. I used to think we DID live in that world. I think that some of these shootings that have become cause celebres were very much legitimate, and that there is a disservice done to the issue a whole by embracing the anti-police story regardless of the facts that emerge. That was me until about 15 years ago, after living in Minneapolis for over 10 years and seeing some pretty wild and totally unjustified police behavior, as well as a complete lack of police response to legitimate crimes. My garage broken into? Uncooperative and only very reluctantly gave me a case # for insurance, with a lot of clear irritation that I even asked for it. Neighbor across the street openly dealing crack on their porch and their 10 year old repeatedly reported for theft? Nothing happens. Followed by actual evidence. In the past, you only had the word of the police vs. the word of someone they’re accusing of a crime. Now we have a LOT of video showing outrageous behavior by police, people being framed on camera, cops talking conspiracy to commit crimes on camera, obvious extra-legal executions and a fucking cop shooting at a man sitting on the goddamned street not directly threatening anyone - and being such a horseshit shot that he hits the man’s therapist, who is attempting to peacefully resolve the situation while a FUCKING POLICE OFFICER decides this is the perfect time to just fucking murder this man in the middle of the street. Fuck, a year or so ago we had some dickhard cop smack a guy in a restaurant, out of uniform and off-duty, causing serious injuries, then run away like the coward he was. In court, his fellow cops were high-fiving him like he’d nailed a murderer or something. Yeah, welcome to the real America, where our society needs to start dialing these assholes back a bit. And where the police fellators will accuse you of being anti-police for asking them to show more restraint or not commit blatant crimes. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9000 "2016-09-25T18:24:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why couldn’t they try to de-escalate? Why did they have to respond to minor force with greater force? Why couldn’t they back off on this big guy and say “hey man, calm down. We’re calling in backup and we don’t want this to go badly for anyone.” To me they acted like bullies – with the attitude that _you must comply perfectly and immediately or else we will beat you down_. Not everyone will comply perfectly, and _force isn’t necessary_ for such a minor thing. It’s not like the guy was going to escape! This is what I don’t get either. In one scenario, Crutcher had an episode that caused him to stop his vehicle across the line and stumble around in a confused state. One in which police should be helping him because he is clearly in trouble. On the other, he is high in PCP and acting erratically. You STILL don’t need to escalate. Retreat, control the situation so others don’t get hurt, and assess what is going on. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9001 "2016-09-25T18:54:29Z")
The Charlotte videos are likely the last we’ll ever see out of a NC police department, starting Oct. 1, when [a new law](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/25/us/charlotte-police-video/index.html) will go into effect that blocks public access to dashboard and body cam videos recorded by police. NC is officially the new Florida. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=449) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=451)