# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 451
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9002 "2016-09-25T19:01:46Z")
Which might not be so bad if the old Florida stopped being Florida. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9003 "2016-09-25T19:13:45Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The Charlotte videos are likely the last we’ll ever see out of a NC police department, starting Oct. 1, when [a new law](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/25/us/charlotte-police-video/index.html) will go into effect that blocks public access to dashboard and body cam videos recorded by police. > > NC is officially the new Florida. This combined with the transgender bathroom thing and their voter suppression attempts inarguably makes NC worse than Florida. They have really showed out this year. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9004 "2016-09-25T19:57:39Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Ahh, gotchya. I think my question still stands, though. There have been numerous instances where the police were caught lying. And that’s just on camera. I can’t imagine how many times they did but no one was there to film it. Why still err on the side of believing them? I have asked this question a few times in this thread. How many more times that we do not know about? If their had not been video in this case, Scott being shot for ‘grabbing the taser’ would have been the \*official \*version of events. I wonder what happened to the other cop on the scene. The one who watched the other cop shoot a man who was running away, and watched him drop the taser next to his dead and handcuffed body? Has he been charged with anything? At the very least, he is an accessory after the fact. Bad cops can only get away with it if the so-called ‘good’ cops stand by and do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9005 "2016-09-25T20:13:10Z")
☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9006 "2016-09-25T20:15:14Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The Charlotte videos are likely the last we’ll ever see out of a NC police department, starting Oct. 1, when [a new law](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/25/us/charlotte-police-video/index.html) will go into effect that blocks public access to dashboard and body cam videos recorded by police. I think that it should now be a “civic duty” for people to video interactions between cops and the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9007 "2016-09-25T20:39:16Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > This is what I don’t get either. In one scenario, Crutcher had an episode that caused him to stop his vehicle across the line and stumble around in a confused state. One in which police should be helping him because he is clearly in trouble. On the other, he is high in PCP and acting erratically. You STILL don’t need to escalate. Retreat, control the situation so others don’t get hurt, and assess what is going on. 1. The situation had been assessed. Officer Shelby has been trained to recognize behaviors under different types of drug use and had already determined that Crutcher seemed to be under the influence of PCP. 2. How is an officer supposed to control the situation while retreating? 3. How was the situation escalated? Crutcher utterly ignored all their commands and did everything he wanted up to the point when he was shot. He ignored Shelby’s commands prior to the arrival of backup. He began to walk toward his car despite the police yelling at him to stop, he continued to walk toward it despite their yelling at him to stop, and he attempted to enter it despite their yelling at him to stop. Short of just standing there while he walked to his car, got in and drove off, how could they have escalated it less? Again, I’ve often thought the police are too quick to shoot, but I don’t see how the police escalated the situation in this instance or were too quick to act prior to the shooting itself. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9008 "2016-09-25T20:49:35Z")
Man shoots up shopping mall, leave 5 dead. Walks away and goes home. A day later, [police arrest a likely suspect](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/25/us/washington-mall-shooting-arrest/) without incident. Guess his ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9009 "2016-09-25T20:51:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. The situation had been assessed. Officer Shelby has been trained to recognize behaviors under different types of drug use and had already determined that Crutcher seemed to be under the influence of PCP. Cite for this please. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9010 "2016-09-25T21:07:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Man shoots up shopping mall, leave 5 dead. Walks away and goes home. A day later, [police arrest a likely suspect](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/25/us/washington-mall-shooting-arrest/) without incident. Guess his ethnicity. You guys need to stop with these false equivalencies every time a white guy gets arrested for a serious crime without being killed. Thousands of black guys get arrested every day without being shot, and numerous white guys get shot that you never hear about. In the case of the mall shooter, he was unarmed and…get this…_complied_ when arrested. In the case of the New Jersey pressure cooker bomber, he was shot multiple times during a running gun battle in the streets. There’s no comparison between these cases and those where black guys are refusing to comply with the police and engaging in threatening or potentially threatening behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9011 "2016-09-25T21:11:06Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Cite for this please. It’s been brought up several times in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9012 "2016-09-25T21:13:37Z")
Police officer shoots herself, blames a black guy, and instills fear in the community by telling everyone there’s a shooter on the loose. [She has now been charged.](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-officer-charged-with-fabricating-story-that-black-man-shot-her/ar-BBwyRoK?OCID=ansmsnnews11) Guess how the police were able to determine she was lying? Video and audio from the police car. Without it, she’d probably still be lapping up all the kudos for her valiant service. The black folk of Jackson, GA are lucky that no one was hurt or killed in the pursuit of this fabricated shooter. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9013 "2016-09-25T21:14:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. The situation had been assessed. Officer Shelby has been trained to recognize behaviors under different types of drug use and had already determined that Crutcher seemed to be under the influence of PCP. Sure, sure. > [@](#): > > 1. How is an officer supposed to control the situation while retreating? What about this needed control. Keep talking and get some medical assistance for the guy who is acting confused. He didn’t have a weapon. For christ’s sake, I’m a diabetic. Do you think any given police officer should have the right to murder me because my blood sugar crashes and I’m disoriented? That’s outright fucking evil. > [@](#): > > 1. How was the situation escalated? Crutcher utterly ignored all their commands and did everything he wanted up to the point when he was shot. He ignored Shelby’s commands prior to the arrival of backup. He began to walk toward his car despite the police yelling at him to stop, he continued to walk toward it despite their yelling at him to stop, and he attempted to enter it despite their yelling at him to stop. Short of just standing there while he walked to his car, got in and drove off, how could they have escalated it less? But you know, I’m white, so it is much more likely that they’d think I was having a medical issue and get me help. If I was black, not so much. They’d consider me to be dangerous and just shoot me. Because I’m obviously not doing what I’m told, so they’d have a right to just straight out murder Brown Me for non-compliance. Because, you know, Brown people are frightening and the police can claim they feared for their personal safety. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9014 "2016-09-25T21:27:13Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Man shoots up shopping mall, leave 5 dead. Walks away and goes home. A day later, [police arrest a likely suspect](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/25/us/washington-mall-shooting-arrest/) without incident. Guess his ethnicity. Middle Eastern. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9015 "2016-09-25T21:36:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s been brought up several times in this thread. Every time it’s come up I’ve requested a cite, and I haven’t received one. So I’ll ask again: please provide a cite that the police officer specifically identified PCP use prior to the shooting. Note that I’m asking **you** to provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9016 "2016-09-25T21:52:31Z")
Well, people _are_ saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9017 "2016-09-25T22:22:23Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Man shoots up shopping mall, leave 5 dead. Walks away and goes home. A day later, [police arrest a likely suspect](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/25/us/washington-mall-shooting-arrest/) without incident. Guess his ethnicity. He was a Turkish immigrant who the police initially suspected was Hispanic. Are you arguing that the police in Washington Stats consider Hispanics and Middle Easterners to be white? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9018 "2016-09-25T23:18:35Z")
Here’s another [encounter](http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Police-Officer-Resigns-After-Inappropriate-Use-of-Taser-Pepper-Spray-304660531.html). A driver crosses the median and crashes into a car. He tries to drive away but fails. The cops arrive on the scene. They order the driver out of the car, but he doesn’t comply. They tase him, but it doesn’t appear to do anything. So one of the officers pepper sprays him, and the semi-conscious driver is yanked out of the car like the big crime lord he is. While en route to the hospital, it’s determined that the driver has been suffering from a stroke the entire time. The officer who pepper-sprayed him has now resigned, since the command staff have determined that the use of such force was inappropriate. The abuse that the driver was subjected to was horrible. You can see for [yourself](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3as7EBUkbro). But given what has happened to other mentally impaired black people lately, I think he should consider himself lucky. If the officers had shot and killed him, I have no doubt that most Americans would find that 100% okay since he didn’t comply. It doesn’t matter that he had a very good reason for not complying. People just don’t give a fuck when the person looks like a “thug”. Kudos for Fredericksburg PD for having some sense. I count this as a victory for BLM. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9019 "2016-09-25T23:49:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > They tase him, but it doesn’t appear to do anything. So one of the officers pepper sprays him Well at least they didn’t claim they were defibriliating and topically applying a vasoconstrictor. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9020 "2016-09-26T02:10:17Z")
Well, it _was_ on the Jefferson Davis Highway, and he was black, so what do you expect? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9021 "2016-09-26T03:05:50Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > From the quoted article: Yeah I saw that. I was saying that there is nothing official about a report issued after a cursory examination of bullet entry wounds by someone the plaintiff’s lawyer fired. Anything they say is pretty meaningless in light of the fact that an autopsy is coming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=450) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=452)