# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 456
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9102 "2016-09-26T21:27:31Z")
IIRC, the whole “PCP” thing derived from the supposed super-human strength and resistance to pain the drug allegedly induces. Offered in tenuous support of the police action. Had PCP once, none of that stuff happened, I just sat there and waited for it to go away. Yeah, experimented with drugs, my lab notes for PCP read “Fuck _that_ shit!”. No further research was needed. Nor contemplated. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9103 "2016-09-26T21:27:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **DA** , you appear to be coming down strongly on every side of the issue. I take these things case by case. I think it was likely that Terence Crutcher was on drugs. I think that officer Shelby was entitled to draw her weapon ad maintain distance. I think that the guy with the taser should have fired a LOT sooner. I don’t think there was an imminent threat when Officer Shelby shot Terence Crutcher. I don’t think officer Shelb was looking for a reason to shoot Terence Crutcher or driven by racial animus, I think she was Barney Fife. I think a lot of people have racist fear of black men and refuse to accept their subconscious racism s something they are responsible for controlling. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9104 "2016-09-26T21:29:07Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Emphasis added. If that if all they care about, then they need to find a new job. I have friends who are police officers. They care not only for themselves, but also about the community they serve. Yes, they want to get home, but they also want others to make it home, whenever possible. They are good cops. > > Not all cops are good cops. Not all people are good people. Why would you think that there would be a lower concentration of assholes among the police? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9105 "2016-09-26T21:30:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You’re going to have to except a lot of other cases. How about Charles Kinsey? If that is not a character in a Steven Seagal movie, I think \*\*Starkers \*\*hasn’t a clue. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9106 "2016-09-26T21:34:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I take these things case by case… And how many trees must you count before you are willing to say “forest”? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9107 "2016-09-26T21:34:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not all people are good people. Why would you think that there would be a lower concentration of assholes among the police? In large part, because we arm them, train them, and charge them with policing our society. If there are asshole cops, there should be systems in place to remove them. There are systems in place to better arm and train police officers, right? So shouldn’t the system hold them accountable? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9108 "2016-09-26T21:39:14Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I am sure that the man you want for the job is [Charles Kinsey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey). Well, isn’t this just the prime example? The therapist (a black man) was trying to get his patient (not a black man) to obey the officers commands. So the cops shoot the black man. Is it in the manual somewhere? “When in doubt, shoot the black man.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9109 "2016-09-26T22:07:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, he _did_ post those instructions in #9067 to the black community only. I guess the rules are less strict for other ethnicities. Wait until you see his instructions for rape victims… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9110 "2016-09-26T22:18:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If that is not a character in a Steven Seagal movie, I think \*\*Starkers \*\*hasn’t a clue. Quick anecdote about Steven Seagull; he was known for being a douchebag on set, hurting the stuntmen, and generally being an asshole. One day he was delusionally bragging about how he couldn’t be choked unconscious, and Gene LeBell overheard him. Gene, who had had enough of Seagull’s shit, took him up on his challenge. Long story short, Gene choked Seagull unconscious so hard that Seagull shit himself. From that point forward, Seagull was known in the martial arts community as “Black Belt, Brown Pants.” Seagull, in addition to being a delusional narcissist and martial arts fraud, badly abused his ex-wifes, and was also known for abusing underage Asian prostitutes when he was filming in, I think, Thailand. It’s the “abusing underage prostitutes” story that quietly circulated in Hollywood and killed his career. **Starving Artist** gets his idea of how police behave from Steven Seagull. P.s. spelling of name deliberate ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9111 "2016-09-26T22:18:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. How was the situation escalated? Crutcher utterly ignored all their commands and did everything he wanted up to the point when he was shot. He ignored Shelby’s commands prior to the arrival of backup. He began to walk toward his car despite the police yelling at him to stop, he continued to walk toward it despite their yelling at him to stop, and he attempted to enter it despite their yelling at him to stop. Short of just standing there while he walked to his car, got in and drove off, how could they have escalated it less? > > Again, I’ve often thought the police are too quick to shoot, but I don’t see how the police escalated the situation in this instance or were too quick to act prior to the shooting itself. So now you think he was going to the car to try and drive off, not to get a weapon? Good call, since she hadn’t seen a weapon when she searched the car. That makes it even less justifiable to be shooting – there are many other ways to stop someone from driving off. > [@monstro](#): > > The abuse that the driver was subjected to was horrible. You can see for [yourself](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3as7EBUkbro). But given what has happened to other mentally impaired black people lately, I think he should consider himself lucky. If the officers had shot and killed him, I have no doubt that most Americans would find that 100% okay since he didn’t comply. It doesn’t matter that he had a very good reason for not complying. People just don’t give a fuck when the person looks like a “thug”. I saw a sign around here that said “All Lives Matter - Thank You Police”, and I thought, you mean the [same police](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x10330) who pulled a sick black man naked off his own toilet in his own house and pulled him into the street. I guess we should just be thankful he wasn’t killed. :rolleyes: Or the cops who answered the call from a concerned neighbor watching a (black male) friend of mine **move into** his new apartment in the middle of the day after getting a job up here. Thanks, police, for sitting in your cruiser watching him because god forbid a black man move in without suspicion. Minor I know in light of everything else, but depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9112 "2016-09-26T23:08:08Z")
Let me turn this around a bit. So what I’m hearing from the police and the authoritarians out there is that when I walk out my door every day, hell, just every day because they could come into my house… _ **I have to do everything any police officer tells me to do, immediately and without complaint, or they have the right to kill me.** _ That really doesn’t sound very reasonable to me and I’m not quite sure when we ceded them this much power, but it is time to dial it back. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9113 "2016-09-26T23:20:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That’s just fucking absurd. There is no excuse for that and frankly there is no excuse for handcuffing him instead of getting him in an ambulance ASAP. You know, to go back in time a bit, there was no reason for the cops who shot Tamir Rice to just stand around and not render aid while it still may have done some good. Oh yeah the police union said that Kinsey was shot by accident. They were actually aiming for the autisic patient for the offence of not following instructions. Of course he couldn’t, he was autisic. I’m sure that the police apologists will say that it was a tragic misunderstanding. I would agree if deaf people weren’t also shot for not following instructions. Not following police instructions is not a capital offense. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9114 "2016-09-26T23:58:03Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Let me turn this around a bit. > > So what I’m hearing from the police and the authoritarians out there is that when I walk out my door every day, hell, just every day because they could come into my house… > > _ **I have to do everything any police officer tells me to do, immediately and without complaint, or they have the right to kill me.** _ > > That really doesn’t sound very reasonable to me and I’m not quite sure when we ceded them this much power, but it is time to dial it back. No, it’s not reasonable. We should all be in agreement over something as basic as this. But we’re not, and that’s scary. If I’m not responding to a police officer’s commands, I give my permission for them to arrest me by any means necessary. Hopefully they do their due diligence and at least check that I’m not having a stroke or some other medical crisis. I give them my permission to tackle me onto the ground, and if I’m that wild, tase me. Just don’t kill me. I’d like to think I’m paying my taxes to be afforded that much respect, at least. If you’re that scared that shooting someone is your first instinct, you’re a horrible police officer. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9115 "2016-09-27T00:24:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you’re that scared that shooting someone is your first instinct, you’re a horrible police officer. On the other hand, there probably is a small percentage of officers who get off bullying the public, and while shooting a suspect may not be their first instinct, it’s might be on a short list. I think most of these shootings have to deal with training issues, and not personality disorders, but they can be there. Look at the ABQ cop who said he wanted to shoot the homeless guy’s dick off and was recorded a few hours before he shot the guy actually saying this. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9116 "2016-09-27T00:27:03Z")
“Do what they say and you won’t get hurt” is advice you give a hostage, not a free citizen interacting with a public servant. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9117 "2016-09-27T00:32:30Z")
Another incredibly [fucked up encounter](http://myfox8.com/2016/09/26/watch-greensboro-leaders-release-disturbing-body-camera-video/) with the police. Yes, it’s a long video and requires some patience. But it goes from calm, polite to WTF!!! in the blink of an eye. It’s quite disturbing. I’ve never shed a tear before while watching these kind of videos. Not even Philandro Castille’s or Sandra Bland’s video made me cry, though I came close. This video has really messed me up, though. And it’s funny, too, because Dejuan Yourse makes it out alive. But there’s something about his polite, cordial manner that reminds me so much of my big brother. I picture my brother sitting on our parent’s front porch (also in a suburban cul de sac), waiting for our folks to come home so he can do whatever repair job they need him to do. And then I see him being being brutalized by a cop hopped up on testosterone and authority. This makes me so sad and angry, ya’ll. Dejuan could have easily been killed. And if it weren’t for the videos, you better fuckin’ believe the story would have been “The suspect grabbed for my gun and I feared for my life.” The male cop has been permanently suspended. I think his partner should also be fired for her role in all of this. Did you catch the big-ass lie she told right before the shit went down? Perhaps if she hadn’t done that, Dejuan wouldn’t have (correctly) surmised that he was being harrassed. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9118 "2016-09-27T01:03:17Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you’re that scared that shooting someone is your first instinct, you’re a horrible police officer. On the other hand, there probably is a small percentage of officers who get off bullying the public, and while shooting a suspect may not be their first instinct, it’s might be on a short list. I think most of these shootings have to deal with training issues, and not personality disorders, but they can be there. Look at the ABQ cop who said he wanted to shoot the homeless guy’s dick off and was recorded a few hours before he shot the guy actually saying this. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9119 "2016-09-27T01:13:04Z")
Yes, the oft repeated ‘small number’ and ‘training issues’. These excuses might be more believable if the ‘larger number’ of “good” cops were doing something about their bad actors and not high-fiving them in court and protecting them from being fired. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9120 "2016-09-27T01:46:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Then why do you give a shit whether or not he was on PCP? If being on PCP is irrelevant to the conversation then why even contest it? Because there are people in this thread who are saying that he was shot because the cops could tell that he was on PCP. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9121 "2016-09-27T01:49:52Z")
And being on PCP earns you an instant death sentence without trial, apparently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=455) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=457)